What to look for when buying a wood stove...

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Fyrebug

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I've seen a few posts lately requiring the assistance of members on a particular model. So as to help out in your never ending quest to find the 'perfect' stove here are my 2 cents.

This will be heresy on my part but ultimately all wood stoves are square black boxes made out of metal with no moving parts.

When everyone chip in, including myself and say "this (my) stove is the greatest and you must buy it"... at the end of the day if they are all EPA rated they will perform pretty close to one another.

Also keep in mind the person making that statement is either biased (me) or their experience with wood stoves is not objective since they only have experience with one or two models in their lifetime. But still useful since they have real life experience with their model.

What you want to look for is shopping for a wood stove is:

1) Your budget - tight and you are looking at big box store utilitarian look. But they will work. Watch out for Chinese made stuff as they tend to be lighter with less material. The Hearth shop stoves typically are better made, nicer look, some exotic material (soapstone, cast iron), better warranty etc...

2) Cubic Foot size of the firebox is a better indicator than stated burn times and square footage. The bigger the more burn time and BTU output. Unfortunately some (Vogelzang) list the size of their firebox without the bricks.

3) Fit and finish. Especially look for door handle (how loose it is, is the mechanism just a bent rod, top plate steel thickness, heavy or light duty bricks, Baffle material composition, how the door gasket to the frame match etc..)

4) Warranty: Some are limited Lifetime others are down to one year. Watch out for some warranties where if you dont register within 30 days you are out of luck forever. Things that are worthwhile on the warranty: Blower and electrical components, glass, burn tubes & baffles.

5) Most importantly: Your better half... She better like the look since there can be some fun entertainment in front of the fire :msp_ohmy:

6) Nice to have: Blowers (improves efficiencies and circulate heat), Heat exchangers (really improves efficiencies since it recuperates a lot of the heat from the stove when combined with a blower ie. like a small furnace)

7) The company that makes them: Are they made in the USA or North America (if that matters to you), Have they been around for a long time and are they financially secure (many companies are teetering right now), do they have a good reputation for supporting their customers and most importantly... Do they support AS forums?:msp_wink:

That's all I can think about right now but I'm sure others will pipe in.
 
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Thanks Fyrebug, most of what you listed is what I've been sifting through here lately. One other thing I've put some emphasis on that you didn't mention is stove weight.

While it's not a tell-all (you can add weight to a stove where it does no good), in general, a heavier stove is built with thicker steel that will hold up longer, be more resistant to warping, and adds thermal mass that will help a bit with more even heat. (That's the one thing I envy about the soapstone stoves that are out of my price range).

Question for you: Since the EPA really only rates G/hr of emissions, and not really BTU output, is there an advantage to a stove that puts out say 2g vs one that puts out 4g/hr? Seems to me the lower particulate numbers would mean a better, more efficient burn, but there may be something else I'm missing there.
 
Question for you: Since the EPA really only rates G/hr of emissions, and not really BTU output, is there an advantage to a stove that puts out say 2g vs one that puts out 4g/hr? Seems to me the lower particulate numbers would mean a better, more efficient burn, but there may be something else I'm missing there.

As mentioned in a previous post, the difference between a couple of grams per hour in real life is insignificant. You and I would blow this metric with improper startup procedure, one log slightly over 20% moisture content, bad barometric pressure etc.

A better metric are stated efficiencies by the MFG. These are typically tested by an independent lab. Most EPA stoves are typically between 75% to 82%. This is useful but then again efficiencies will vary with users and fuel. But at least it's a benchmark.

Dont trust the EPA label efficiency of 63%. It's absolutely meaningless - it's a baseline value they put on all stoves and not a test of that particular unit.
 
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Let me add a few Very Good Things, in a wood stove:

1) Firebrick lining. Keeps firebox temps up, promoting combustion efficiency. Protects sides from intense heating, which will shorten life. Rais & Wittus use formed blocks of fused vermiculite, an excellent insulator; their stoves are works of art. Mind you, in my little Morso, the exterior side castings are heated largely above the baffle, where the hot gases are leaving. That can easily get them above 550 F.

2) Grate with ash-tray below. Makes it really easy to remove ashes while keeping it going, and not dusting the house interior w/wood ash. HowTo: A) shake the grate to drop most ashes, and a few small coals, B) wait 10 minutes, C) remove ash tray and dump ashes outdoors into METAL bucket w/metal lid, D) insert splits.
 
I have one major complaint about my EPA firebox… there ain’t no grate, the fire burns directly on the firebrick floor. A grate would be my first priority if I was “shopping” for a new stove. If I clean all the ash out I get nice complete burns, with a few coals left at the rear, for a couple days. Once those ashes start to build up so do the coals… they just never burn out, which reduces fuel capacity a ton. I’ve started pulling/pushing the ashes from the front 2/3’s or so into the cleanout door every morning then I use a rake to separated the coals from the ash in the back and clean out as much as I can. It’s a huge pain, but the alternative is worse… if I don’t keep it clean I end up with several inches of ash/coal mix that will still be “hot” after 3 days.

My advice would be… If the fire don’t burn on a grate that separates ash from hot coals, and allows a convenient way to remove the separated ash, walk away!
 
You never get more than you pay for.

I'd like to add some thoughts if I may...

In any economy, good or bad, people tend to base purchases on price. With appliances, wood burners included one shouldn't yield to temptation to price shop. Buying the cheapest stove gets you the cheapest stove.

Cheaper often equates to inferior design. The manus cut corners to offer a lower price. Issues with cheap stoves can include poor draft, back puffing, lack of combustion air control, etc.

Anyone remember those oval-shaped tin stoves? They were outlawed years ago. I guess they'd burned enough houses down already. They only lasted one season ~ and I never understood why anyone would use 'em in their home... but they were cheap. Sold new for around $6.00 when I was a pup.

Sure, I like that $400.00 price tag on a new stove. But I've got to wonder how that stove got on the shelf for $400.00, too. :)
 
I have one major complaint about my EPA firebox… there ain’t no grate, the fire burns directly on the firebrick floor. A grate would be my first priority if I was “shopping” for a new stove. If I clean all the ash out I get nice complete burns, with a few coals left at the rear, for a couple days. Once those ashes start to build up so do the coals… they just never burn out, which reduces fuel capacity a ton. I’ve started pulling/pushing the ashes from the front 2/3’s or so into the cleanout door every morning then I use a rake to separated the coals from the ash in the back and clean out as much as I can. It’s a huge pain, but the alternative is worse… if I don’t keep it clean I end up with several inches of ash/coal mix that will still be “hot” after 3 days.

My advice would be… If the fire don’t burn on a grate that separates ash from hot coals, and allows a convenient way to remove the separated ash, walk away!

Agreed... Some sort of ash removal leaving coals is a MUST!!!!
I have a silent flame pedestal stove of sorts w/blower, no fire brick... Just a grate to hold the wood...
Thick steel box, and I've had no problems, but when burning hard during cold weather, it fills up with ash and unburnt coals fast!!! No good way to get em out...
 
I have one major complaint about my EPA firebox… there ain’t no grate, the fire burns directly on the firebrick floor. A grate would be my first priority if I was “shopping” for a new stove. If I clean all the ash out I get nice complete burns, with a few coals left at the rear, for a couple days. Once those ashes start to build up so do the coals… they just never burn out, which reduces fuel capacity a ton. I’ve started pulling/pushing the ashes from the front 2/3’s or so into the cleanout door every morning then I use a rake to separated the coals from the ash in the back and clean out as much as I can. It’s a huge pain, but the alternative is worse… if I don’t keep it clean I end up with several inches of ash/coal mix that will still be “hot” after 3 days.

My advice would be… If the fire don’t burn on a grate that separates ash from hot coals, and allows a convenient way to remove the separated ash, walk away!

The one thing I do like about my wood burning stove is the fact it doesn't have a grate. This way the coals do build up and not drop through to the ash pan. My air intake is a few inches odd of the fire box floor. When I get coals built up, I pull them forward and cover the air intake. If air is allowed to get to the coals they burn really hot! This is just how a forge works. This way I get another hour or so burn.

What I don't like about my stove is the fact that the ash pan isn't vented to the chimney, so when there is hot ashes/coals in there they vent to the house! I have to make sure to get the hot stuff out of the house when I do that. There is a pull out pan/door that allows the ashes to drop into the ash pan. The ash pan is a pull out pan too. FYI.
 
With both furnaces we've had, I prefer not having grates. I do miss the shaker grates. Made quick work for ash removal, but also quick work for coal removal. Of course our furnace now is very different in design, but burning on firebrick allows for better control of the fire. We do have an ash pan, but I don't use it often. I prefer to scoop out in the a.m whats in front of the coal bed. What's nice about our setup is as heat is needed via thermostat, the damper opens and brings the coal bed to life, in return kicking in the blower. Once the thermostat closes the damper, the coal bed goes back to dormancy. This way the coal bed can heat the home over a long period of time. If there was air under the coal bed, it would be gone in the morning. Even though our new furnace probably introduces more combustion air than the old, the fuel load (half of the old) remains active longer. I believe the firebrick floor has alot to do with this. If someone is waking in the morning to dead coals in a firebox, either draft is weak or there's not enough air. Nothing better than waking to a warm home and a nice bed of glowing coals in the rear of the firebox.
 
I'd like to add some thoughts if I may...

In any economy, good or bad, people tend to base purchases on price. With appliances, wood burners included one shouldn't yield to temptation to price shop. Buying the cheapest stove gets you the cheapest stove.

Cheaper often equates to inferior design. The manus cut corners to offer a lower price. Issues with cheap stoves can include poor draft, back puffing, lack of combustion air control, etc.

Anyone remember those oval-shaped tin stoves? They were outlawed years ago. I guess they'd burned enough houses down already. They only lasted one season ~ and I never understood why anyone would use 'em in their home... but they were cheap. Sold new for around $6.00 when I was a pup.

Sure, I like that $400.00 price tag on a new stove. But I've got to wonder how that stove got on the shelf for $400.00, too. :)

Not really. If you compare these metel boxes with fossil fuel units. You do not get close to your bang for the buck. Just the engineering of the techno fossel fuel units. Modulating fans, modulating comb motors, modulating comp, modulating gas valves, outdoor air temp, heat anticipation. Wood is 20 years behind. It could be so much more, makes me think about starting a new venture.
 
... My air intake is a few inches off of the fire box floor. When I get coals built up, I pull them forward and cover the air intake. If air is allowed to get to the coals they burn really hot! This is just how a forge works. This way I get another hour or so burn.

No, that isn't how a forge works... a forge brings the air into the coals from underneath, not the front or side. I thought my air intake was a few inches off the firebox floor also; but that's just the small amount of "boost air", the majority of air is brought in above the glass door as "air wash" and flows down into the firebox... causing most of it to flow across the top of the coal bed, not into it (that's why the coals at the back stay for near ever and the coal bed produces relatively little heat, only the top layer is getting good air). My guess is yours is the same... take a closer look, if it has a glass door it has to have a huge amount of air coming in as "air wash" or the glass would be black as night. If your fire burned on a grate that had air directed under it you wouldn't have to screw around with pulling the coals forward... they would "burn really hot" all on their own (like in a forge) and you'd still get the added "hour or so burn." The difference would be you could load it and forget it until reload time... you wouldn't have to screw around stirring up the coals and moving them to where the air is to keep it heating. And, because the ash would fall down through the grate, and air would flow up through the grate, the coals wouldn't become insulated away from the combustion air.

I'm still working on adding a grate system modification for mine... which may include replacing the glass with steel, plugging off the "air wash", and opening up the lower boost air.
 
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No, that isn't how a forge works... a forge brings the air into the coals from underneath, not the front or side. I thought my air intake was a few inches off the firebox floor also; but that's just the small amount of "boost air", the majority of air is brought in above the glass door as "air wash" and flows down into the firebox... causing most of it to flow across the top of the coal bed, not into it (that's why the coals at the back stay for near ever and the coal bed produces relatively little heat, only the top layer is getting good air). My guess is yours is the same... take a closer look, if it has a glass door it has to have a huge amount of air coming in as "air wash" or the glass would be black as night. If your fire burned on a grate that had air directed under it you wouldn't have to screw around with pulling the coals forward... they would "burn really hot" all on their own (like in a forge) and you'd still get the added "hour or so burn." The difference would be you could load it and forget it until reload time... you wouldn't have to screw around stirring up the coals and moving them to where the air is to keep it heating. And, because the ash would fall down through the grate, and air would flow up through the grate, the coals wouldn't become insulated away from the combustion air.

I'm still working on adding a grate system modification for mine... which may include replacing the glass with steel, plugging off the "air wash", and opening up the lower boost air.

Whitespider is accurate on both accounts.

A forge drives air from the bottom, in fact novice blacksmiths can ruin a forge by leaving a blower on the coke fire and literally melting the bottom out of the forge.

Also the "airwash" to keep the glass from darkening is also true. Air needs to come in low, not over the top.
 
The (so-called) efficiency of EPA stoves is nothing more than a play on words. Sure, 80% efficiency would be fantastic if the stove could radiate all that heat at a rate fast enough to keep an area warm over the complete burn cycle… but they don’t. Like I’ve said before, there’s a huge difference between “burn efficiency” and “heating efficiency.” A stove burning at 50% efficiency and consumes the entire fuel load while radiating the same amount of heat over 6 hours has better “heating efficiency” than a stove burning at 80% efficiency over 12 hours.

If 30 pounds of wood contain 230,000 BTU’s…
At 50% for 6 hours equals 38,000 BTU’s per hour average.
At 80% for 12 hours equals 19,000 BTU’s per hour average.
Next you have to figure that the “older” 50% efficiency stove provides a relatively constant amount of radiated heat (i.e. pretty darn close to the average) over the entire 6 hours by just simply filling it and walking away (and it can be adjusted to make less heat for longer, or more heat for shorter time). But the EPA stove provides a lot of heat (well above the average) for the first couple of hours or so until the secondary shuts down and then the amount of radiated heat is well below the average. When the temperatures outside drop down into single digits (or lower) the “old” 50% efficiency stove is far and away the more efficiency “heater”. The EPA stove will make you sweat for the first 2 hours, be comfortable for 4, and shiver for the last 6.

EPA stoves are made to meet EPA emission standards first (necessarily), and heat second… it-is-what-it-is.
 
Yeah man, you nailed it!
The old stoves were more efficient and used less wood!

That ain't even close to what I said... it ain't even in the same zip code.
And by-the-way, I haven't noticed much difference in the amount of wood I'm using.
I believe that is more a function of the operator than the stove... it takes a bit more "smarts" to run an "older" stove.
People used to grow-up running wood fired heaters, now they just turn up the thermostat and have no clue what they're doing... hence, the "idiot-proof" new-fangled stoves.

Heck, most people don't even have a clue how to use a flue damper... let alone how to properly instal one.
 
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The (so-called) efficiency of EPA stoves is nothing more than a play on words. Sure, 80% efficiency would be fantastic if the stove could radiate all that heat at a rate fast enough to keep an area warm over the complete burn cycle… but they don’t. Like I’ve said before, there’s a huge difference between “burn efficiency” and “heating efficiency.” A stove burning at 50% efficiency and consumes the entire fuel load while radiating the same amount of heat over 6 hours has better “heating efficiency” than a stove burning at 80% efficiency over 12 hours.

If 30 pounds of wood contain 230,000 BTU’s…
At 50% for 6 hours equals 38,000 BTU’s per hour average.
At 80% for 12 hours equals 19,000 BTU’s per hour average.
Next you have to figure that the “older” 50% efficiency stove provides a relatively constant amount of radiated heat (i.e. pretty darn close to the average) over the entire 6 hours by just simply filling it and walking away (and it can be adjusted to make less heat for longer, or more heat for shorter time). But the EPA stove provides a lot of heat (well above the average) for the first couple of hours or so until the secondary shuts down and then the amount of radiated heat is well below the average. When the temperatures outside drop down into single digits (or lower) the “old” 50% efficiency stove is far and away the more efficiency “heater”. The EPA stove will make you sweat for the first 2 hours, be comfortable for 4, and shiver for the last 6.

EPA stoves are made to meet EPA emission standards first (necessarily), and heat second… it-is-what-it-is.

Wow!! One trip to the Lamppa household will change your mind...
 
What's the difference between a coal stove and a wood stove? I've got a Harman, Mark II I believe, and I've been burning wood in it for years (it's marketed as a coal stove). It's the only stove I've ever had as an adult and it seems to do its job transforming wood into heat very well. And it's easy to keep clean. I know that coal stoves resist warping better than wood stoves, so wouldn't it make sense to just get a coal stove in the first place, price being about equal?
 
Wow!! One trip to the Lamppa household will change your mind...

No it wouldn't... It would just make spidey have to take his jacket off...
Then he'd see the quote for a new unit, and just pass out...
But I know you all build some nice stuff...
I'll be checking out one of your new furnaces today...
By the way, do you warrantee your stoves for those of us that burn Hedge in them???
 
Yeah man, you nailed it!

The old stoves were more efficient and used less wood! :laugh:


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I believe he was referring to the overall usability of the unit to heat his home...
Smoke, no smoke, not the issue at this point...
 
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