Where do fallers get their experience from?

[Wyoming_Outback]

Getting more experience felling today. Face was not great, was at two angles, but the tree went exactly where I wanted it to between this Doug Fir and Spruce. Aimed for the spruce, as I knew the top had a sweep towards the Fir that would make it miss the Spruce.
Didn’t remember to look up, but didn’t get one.
I did use a wedge as a safety measure for the first time on this tree. One of the bigger ones I’ve dropped. I’d say probably 32”x34” or so. The tree also went forward about 4.5’ when it finally landed.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Cutters are constantly gaining experience. If they aren't. They should be.

 

[Huntaholic]

This one right here kinda got under my skin lol. If you look up that trunk you will see that it forked about 30 ft up and anybody thats ever cut veneer timber knows what happens when a forked tree hits the ground wrong! That tree WANTED to go to the 9 oclock position from where its at but I managed to talk it into going where I wanted it thank God! Thats a 28in bar on my 390xp. That tree ended up bringing over $5000 bucks. Those are the kind you dont want to bust!

 

[davidwyby]

@slowp not flippant at all…I make it a point to try to redirect every tree I can for the learning experience.

 

[Huntaholic]

@slowp not flippant at all…I make it a point to try to redirect every tree I can for the learning experience.

EXACTLY! I do the same thing on a lot of the trees I cut, thats how we gain experience so when it comes to those trees that matter, we have a better idea on where we can put them and what they will do.

 

[woodfarmer]

@slowp, I don’t know where you got the idea about just “dropping trees“ or “flippant” comments? I‘ve read a lot of helpful comments in this thread.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I went unhappily on a 3 week tour of E. Oregon back in the day. We were a crew from SW Washington the State made up of people from various specialties. We were the last crew made up from our ranger district, after us, there was nobody crew qualified left to go. Our faller was a guy who had done production falling in W. Warshington. We were criticized for bringing such a big saw. (this saw and sawyer and our crew later became legend on this trip.--think Spartucus movie)

Week two, our faller was getting run ragged, because he was one of the more experienced guys on that fire. We all were losing weight and tired, but it was scary to see him losing weight. We'd go out and he'd get "borrowed".

There's more than being super cool. Prepare for horking up black stuff out of your lungs days after getting home. You are breathing ash and smoke. You are walking in "moon dust"--dust so fine it poofs up from footsteps. You are camping out in city parks, dusty meadows, pastures, etc. Generators are running all hours, porta potty doors slamming, tents zipping and unzipping. Sleep can be difficult, especially if you are on night shift and trying to sleep when it is 90 degrees out. People get sick, and then it runs through the crews. That latter part is why I avoided going to fires as much as I could. It seemed like I came home with a lovely case of bronchitus, and then had to stay home from my real job until I could breathe better.

Fire work is not super cool, it is filthy and bad for your health. It sucks. But it is an interesting, if not frustrating, experience.

From reading the comments on here, I wonder how many of the commenters actually fall trees/timber for a living? Not drop them, fall them in a direction that you determine prior to putting a saw to the tree? The comments just seem....flippant.

"How many of the commenters actually fall trees for a living?"

Well, I just determine what direction it's leaning and figure thats where its probably supposed to go. Throw a sloppy ol face cut in the SOB. Don't look for or care about bypass cuts. Don't really pay concern to stumps, whips, snags and standing merchantable timer possibly in the way. Start my back cut. Cut a corner or two, or maybe saw it off the stump completely befoand its even commited and then let'er fly! She'll find a place to hit the ground or get hung up. Trust me!

So slowp, how do you fall timber for a living?

 

[BeatCJ]

Let me start by saying I am not a faller. I am a firefighter with 35 fire seasons behind me. I have my "B" card, but they have change it to Type 2, to match other fire equipment types. I have family that worked in the woods all of their lives, trucks, equipment and fallers. I got and maintain my card so I can tell under qualified people no they can't cut that one with some authority and certification to back me up. For some people the name on the IAP, gray hair and reading glasses aren't enough.

I learned more by tagging around an old faller when he needed someone to go out with him working a private tree farm near me.

While you can get your Type 1 card, on most fires any more, contract fallers do most of the hazard trees any more. They are almost all contract cutters that have bid into the Federal Contracting system.

Hand Crews, Type 1 (hotshots) will cut if there is not a faller on the fire (or division), but prefer to pass the risk off to those that are getting paid for it.

 

[slowp]

"How many of the commenters actually fall trees for a living?"

Well, I just determine what direction it's leaning and figure thats where its probably supposed to go. Throw a sloppy ol face cut in the SOB. Don't look for or care about bypass cuts. Don't really pay concern to stumps, whips, snags and standing merchantable timer possibly in the way. Start my back cut. Cut a corner or two, or maybe saw it off the stump completely befoand its even commited and then let'er fly! She'll find a place to hit the ground or get hung up. Trust me!

So slowp, how do you fall timber for a living?

Nope. Just have some fire experience and worked as a forester out on logging sites. Have never claimed to be a faller, ever. It is too scary. I do have the ability to pretty much tell if a "faller" is experienced. I've known some extremely skilled fallers and some pretty scary wannabes. Was once warned after I'd walked down to check falling and bucking to stay away from a fairly new guy, because "he don't see too good."

Some of the people on this site don't know about the bad stuff. Have they lived in a logging town and seen all the oldish men hobbling around? Heard the story of the guy who walks back and forth all day along the highway? (he was hit on the head by a limb), felt the stomach churn when you see a snag top tree start folding up with a faller underneath--he was quick enough but got a good scare out of it, etc. On fires, add in the bit that the tree might shoot some flames out--yup, the pictures look cool, might not be very sound so less to work with, and smoke, hot temps, and inhaling smoke and ash--hence the morning horking fest.

My favorite part of the LOGGING operation is yarding. That's just me. I like to hear whistles and see trees sent up the hill to the landing. I guess I should say liked. I was able to retire when my feet and other parts started wearing out. But figuring out how to get those logs up the hill can be challenging and interesting--it exercises the gray cells along with the rest of the body. Listening to hooktenders as we pick out tailholds. Always learning.

Some of the better fallers were told to start out on a rigging crew, and they did, and it paid off as they understand the big picture--that it isn't just "dropping" trees. That term is used quite a bit on this forum. You can get a tree on the ground, but can it go up the hill without getting hung up or scarring up leave trees? That isn't discussed very much. Banging up leave trees is very much frowned upon, and you'll likely hear about it if you do that very much.

 

[slowp]

One of my favorite pictures of not falling. Typical West side of the Cascades ground. I took the picture. Was later offered the job of hooktender for this outfit--jokingly, after I said that I thought their intermediate support (jack) was rigged backwards, and it turned out to be true. I declined.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

One of my favorite pictures of not falling. Typical West side of the Cascades ground. I took the picture. Was later offered the job of hooktender for this outfit--jokingly, after I said that I thought their intermediate support (jack) was rigged backwards, and it turned out to be true. I declined.
View attachment 1139350

In regards to the picture. What's the hell is that box hanging from the half pushed over pecker pole? A hunting blind?

 

[slowp]

In regards to the picture. What's the hell is that box hanging from the half pushed over pecker pole? A hunting blind?

It's a carriage. Motorized. It's on a skyline, not a peckerpole. It spools the mainline through it and makes pulling line a bit easier. Then it'll pull the line in--lateral yarding, and then up the hill to the landing. It's radio controlled. Can't get my thumb drive to work or I'd have a closeup of it.

 

[slowp]

Ahh, here is a picture of the same carriage in the same unit.

 

[HumBurner]

View attachment 1139438Ahh, here is a picture of the same carriage in the same unit.

If each step isn't a vertical 1.5-3' up/down, then what's the point???

Best job in the world.

 

[codeinater7]

Username probably gives it away.

After working on a fire hand crew for a couple seasons I took a pretty serious interest in felling as a career. It'll probably be another couple years before I'm able to hop into that field as I'm also interested in becoming a better climber and pursuing that first, but from the bit of research I did into the field I've been starting to wonder where exactly ballers get their initial experience from.

After contacting a few logging outfits and looking into various other career options for hazard tree mitigation it seems as if most companies only contract or hire already decently experienced fallers instead of training within the company. I hear a lot in logging that it's also largely a family or close friend oriented type of career field as well where "outsiders" have a pretty small chance of finding pure falling positions.

Probably not something I'll have to be seriously concerned about for a little while and I'm still holding out for the chance that I just haven't contacted the right companies in the field or asked around enough. But when the time comes I'd like to know what avenues I have open to me I guess. I've heard carrying fuel for or shadowing loggers is one way to get experience so I'm thinking maybe that will be the way I'll have to break into the field once I finally make my way back out west.

I've taken an art of felling timber class in Oregon and plan to do a couple more in the future but after looking into the requirements for fallers who work on wildfires this doesn't seem like something I can afford to overestimate my skills in. Nor does it seem like there's many other ways to get experience other than actually being a faller with a logging outfit for some time or maybe finding one of those California crews that do fire breaks or cleanup.

Just looking for any and all advice I can get. I don't think there's been any job I've enjoyed as much as climbing or dropping trees. Thanks!

Hey i was curious if you had any luck because im pretty much the same trying to find out where to begine as am somewhat green. Ive looked up online tried to reach out to fallers who have and regularly make videos on facebook and youtube to find out where to start with no response.

 

[slowp]

Hey i was curious if you had any luck because im pretty much the same trying to find out where to begine as am somewhat green. Ive looked up online tried to reach out to fallers who have and regularly make videos on facebook and youtube to find out where to start with no response.

Forget those and talk to real loggers. You might have to ask around to find those. I know that one Chehalis, WA company--not a gypo logger, used to need rigging crew people, which would be a foot in the door. The same outfit used to have their own fallers--they don't contract it out. It's probably the same for other areas.

And the internet says that company no longer is in business.