Winch vs helper handle

[Dtxoreo]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm gonna make it brief because hate being over the top on a first post.

I've started running a 36" inch grandberg recently on a 36" sprocket nose. But get a max cut of roughly 30" and even then the chain brake BARELY clears lol. And I would like to get full cut length also like to add some nose end assistance

So I am looking to upgrade my bar and need some advice;

50 inch double ended bar with a helper handle?
OR
42 inch sprocket nose with a winch?

Any pros and cons going one direction or the other. Is the helper handle really a viable solution if I have another set of hands? DE has the oiler holes but not a make or break, outboard chain tension sounds nice. DE is a wider bar but also bigger and heavier. Etc.

42 sprocket is about 1/3 the price of a 50 DE.

What do you guys think?

 

[motolife313]

Why not just get a winch which I think is a good idea then add a custom handle to the end of the mill. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone pretty much. Have fun. Double ended bar is way overthinking it just for a handle on the other end

 

[BobL]

The other alternative is to just slope your logs but you will need a way to lift one end of the log.
Look at the link to Log Lifter II in my sig for ideas.

 

[Javillonian]

Hey, I'm new hear also. Don't understand what you mean by add a winch? Could you or someone else explain what a winch setup looks like, how is it configured, what does it do? is it power or manual? I'm guessing it's for power feed. Surely others a wondering also, THANKS

 

[BobL]

Winches go back to the first Alaskan mills and are used to pull the mill through the log.
One of the first people to put a mill winch design on paper was Will Malloff as shown in his "Chainsaw Lumber" making book.
His design put the winch and pulleys at one end of the log like this. This also requires a remote throttle.
The important thing to note is the direction of pull is direct in line with bar/cut - this becomes a PITA as the pulleys have to be repositioned for every cut.



These days winches are usually located on the mill with the rope just affixed to the other end of the log.
No remote throttle is need but it does mean the direction of pull is not exactly in line with the cut.
This doesn't matter so much when milling boards but it's not so good for beams as it tend to tilt the mill.
I've tried winches a few times but never found them worth the bother of setting up especially when I can slope the log and let gravity do the work.
If you chain is "on song" you don't need much slope.

If I was milling lots of longer bigger logs that would be too heavy to get onto a slope I would consider using a winch.

 

[chunky]

Hey, I'm new hear also. Don't understand what you mean by add a winch? Could you or someone else explain what a winch setup looks like, how is it configured, what does it do? is it power or manual? I'm guessing it's for power feed. Surely others a wondering also, THANKS

There's plenty of videos out there using them.

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

 

[Javillonian]

Winches go back to the first Alaskan mills and are used to pull the mill through the log.
One of the first people to put a mill winch design on paper was Will Malloff as shown in his "Chainsaw Lumber" making book.
His design put the winch and pulleys at one end of the log like this. This also requires a remote throttle.
The important thing to note is the direction of pull is direct in line with bar/cut - this becomes a PITA as the pulleys have to be repositioned for every cut.
View attachment 982693
View attachment 982694

These days winches are usually located on the mill with the rope just affixed to the other end of the log.
No remote throttle is need but it does mean the direction of pull is not exactly in line with the cut.
This doesn't matter so much when milling boards but it's not so good for beams as it tend to tilt the mill.
I've tried winches a few times but never found them worth the bother of setting up especially when I can slope the log and let gravity do the work.
If you chain is "on song" you don't need much slope.
View attachment 982697
If I was milling lots of longer bigger logs that would be too heavy to get onto a slope I would consider using a winch.

Thanks Bobl, those are some great pics, I think I was just confused by the term "winch" that sounded like something power fed to me, I get it now, I would rather use the term "hand crank". If you look at my thread titled "My first try at milling , looking back" the first pic shows the cranking system I came up with, it worked perfect, I also use one on my latest electric mill which pulls a hefty load, works great, has the feel only a hand operation could provide. I guess I shouldn't of had to ask what they are since I already have two, always fun to see how other people do things.

 

[BobL]

Thanks Bobl, those are some great pics, I think I was just confused by the term "winch" that sounded like something power fed to me

Some of them are power fed - the simplest one I've seen uses a gear box and a battery powered drill. I dont know how long the battery lasts - can't be that long.

 

[Javillonian]

Some of them are power fed - the simplest one I've seen uses a gear box and a battery powered drill. I dont know how long teh better lasts -cant be that long.

I would think that adding power would cause problems trying to feed correctly, you'd either be feeding to slow or to fast and risk stalling with our limited power. It seems like every cut is a little different and requires a change in speed to keep it in the sweet spot. I would consider putting a RETURN power on my new setup with the trolley and log rolling thru the stationary bar, it's a lot of weight to push back after finishing the cut. My shoulders are hurting this morning. I like the idea of using a drill, I've got power so wouldn't have to use battery. Years ago I built a very large (20') press for putting garage door sections together, the base had to be constantly adjusted up and down to accommodate different sizes, always trying to build on the cheep I took six screw jacks and linked them together with a common shaft and then put a half inch drill motor on the end with a remote reversing switch at a convenient spot. It ran for ten years until I sold it, tens of thousands of cycles.

 

[BobL]

I would think that adding power would cause problems trying to feed correctly, you'd either be feeding to slow or to fast and risk stalling with our limited power. It seems like every cut is a little different and requires a change in speed to keep it in the sweet spot. I would consider putting a RETURN power on my new setup with the trolley and log rolling thru the stationary bar, it's a lot of weight to push back after finishing the cut. My shoulders are hurting this morning. I like the idea of using a drill, I've got power so wouldn't have to use battery. Years ago I built a very large (20') press for putting garage door sections together, the base had to be constantly adjusted up and down to accommodate different sizes, always trying to build on the cheep I took six screw jacks and linked them together with a common shaft and then put a half inch drill motor on the end with a remote reversing switch at a convenient spot. It ran for ten years until I sold it, tens of thousands of cycles.

According to those using a power feed it's worth doing. The cut is started with the power feed on the slow side and ramped up to see where the stall point is and then backed off a notch. It may take a touch longer to cut but for logs of a more or less constant width you can then go do something else like moving/stacking lumber. The small amount of time lost from slightly slower power feeding is more than compensated for by the time recovered from freeing the operator.

FWIW Whether its using the alaskans or bandsaws, most of the pain I experience is from moving the lumber.

 

[djones]

What could be simpler. Start saw, winch to end, repeat.

 

[Billhook]

Not the best video with an electric winch on my Lucas, it is not easy to operate the camera, the winch and the saw at the same time!