Windfall Whips and Widowmakers, the Hazard's of Working in the Woods.

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slowp said:
I've always heard this called, Run Like Hell. As in "I'm going to cut this tree down and if it does this (explanation of what might go wrong) I'll run like hell. The tree is usually pondered and escape routes planned out.

I'll post this photo again since there are new folks on here. I think this snag had a diameter of 11 feet? Or nine? I wasn't there to watch, not that anyone could because it was so bad. It was a hazard tree along a busy forest road. The faller is a very very excellent faller and he had two meticulously groomed escape trails made prior to sticking a saw in it. Saw a video of it, and he did successfully make it away from the using one of his trails. The snag pretty much exploded. His hardhat did fall off during his run.View attachment 1054188
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There is not a doubt in my mind that he had planned escape routes. While at the same time knowing the routes would be extremely difficult to navigate quickly due the steepness of the terrains grade! That is what makes the steep so dangerous!!! No where to get away fast!!!
 
Mad Professor said:
They do it in the Wa cities and don't care about legalities.
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Note that I wrote the words, In The Woods. Please tell me where "they" are shooting exploding targets in "cities". Other than gun clubs, etc. I am unaware of any "cities" where shooting is legal. That's why I prefer to live in town. It's a lot quieter without the idiots who have to shoot at something every day.

Those targets start fires. Explosives start fires. Explosives use in the forest is covered in the fire precaution rules for private, state, and federal forests, just like chainsaws, yarders, etc.

Some high IQ (sarcasm) idiots stood one of those targets up against a slash pile and started a fire a few years ago. Local people got onto the fire quickly and kept it to a smallish size--100 or so acres.
 
Kodiak Kid said:
There is not a doubt in my mind that he had planned escape routes. While at the same time knowing the routes would be extremely difficult to navigate quickly due the steepness of the terrains grade! That is what makes the steep so dangerous!!! No where to get away fast!!!
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Yes. The TIMBER fallers I have been around also take pride in being able to get a tree on the ground, with a proper lay. In fact, I think there was only one time that a tree was left standing until the yarder was set up and the lines were close enough to use them to pull on the tree.

Sometimes, there will be a group "meeting" to figure out how to safely get a tree down.

Note for non-forestry folks on here. Timber falling takes place on steep ground, away from roads, where equipment must be packed in on foot by humans. Trees need to be put down on the ground in a pattern so logs can be yarded out without logs getting hung up, or in the case of partial cuts, damaging the leave trees. Foresters are not happy when leave trees are scarred up.

This was the top part of a commercial thinning unit. A yarder was brought in and a skyline set up to get logs up to a landing. Note the superficial scar on the DF on the left. Not a problem, as it did not penetrate through the bark.

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I considered this unit to be flat. Note to the inexperienced: Usually, the steeper the better when skyline systems are used for yarding. It's all about deflection, or lift and getting one end of the logs up in the air. On some of these units, an intermediate support or jack, had to be rigged up to get proper lift. That increases yarding costs.
 
Waiting for nature to finish job the one that the two are lodged in died last summer, it is about 200' tall and 40 or so inches in diameter.
 

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picture taken from over 100 yards away , look at it every day .your eye is better than miner might be 30',
 
Bottom line on explosives is. It's a very last resort. In a large stand of timber thats been sold for commercial harvest. The timber must be harvested as quickly, efficiently and as safe as possible. Very very seldom are explosives used on a dangerous standing dead.
As far as waiting on nature to do its thing. If one's the owner of the land and timber? That's strictly the land owners decision. If it a timber sale. The buyer can not wait on such things and the snag must be delt with safely along with all the merchantable timber around it included in the sale.
 
I often got a phone call to come out and put some paint on a tree that either needed to be cut, or had been cut, because it had become a safety hazard--trees get hung up in leave trees, or a tree had a dead top that was unsafe for anyone to work under, etc.
 
Kodiak Kid said:
He new it was rotten when he walked up to it before even putting his saw in it! The orange paint ring around the tree marked by the forester indicates it is a danger tree. He new exactly what was capable of happening while he was tip'n the tree. The moment it started fo rip his a** was out of there! Dropping the money and scrambling fir his life on very steep ground with no where to run or get a good foot hold.

How would you hav fell it?
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Deeper face. Opening up the front of the hinge an inch or so never hurts either. What he did might've been as deep as the tree allowed before closing up. But a little reaming can fix that. I once chaired a tree and ran straight into a big rock outcrop behind me. Got the funny bone blast of a lifetime when I fell back onto it & quite the scare as I furiously scrambled in crab fashion away from the tree, face to face with action. I failed to see a big sweep about halfway up the stem which put the top weight probably 6' or 7' away from the stump. How I failed to see a big deal like that was from not looking from 2 different angles. One of my finest moments of mental retardation.. Extreme profound mental retardation.
 
056kid said:
Deeper face. Opening up the front of the hinge an inch or so never hurts either. What he did might've been as deep as the tree allowed before closing up. But a little reaming can fix that. I once chaired a tree and ran straight into a big rock outcrop behind me. Got the funny bone blast of a lifetime when I fell back onto it & quite the scare as I furiously scrambled in crab fashion away from the tree, face to face with action. I failed to see a big sweep about halfway up the stem which put the top weight probably 6' or 7' away from the stump. How I failed to see a big deal like that was from not looking from 2 different angles. One of my finest moments of mental retardation.. Extreme profound mental retardation.
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Roger. I definitely agree, but like you said. The keff may have started to close on him during his top cut. Some relief cuts after face up and before his final back cut may have helped prevent or stall the rip also. Hard to say though without one's self actually being there and seeing the all possibilities in person face to face. A very dangerous cut regardless!
 
I used what I call "cheese slice" cuts to release pressure on this minorly loaded windfall. Starting at the base close to the root wad on the opposite side of the spring. I cut in as far as the wood will allow me until I feel the it sart to bind. Then I make another cut. I repeat this process as may times as I can until I see the kerfs start to close and the spring load and twist load relieved of some of its pressure. Once a decent amount of pressure is released. I move up the trunk and relieve more wood using the same process.
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Then move back down to the base and slowly make the cut to sever the trunk from the root wad by carefully reaching over the top and cutting slowly, or back baring from under nieth. This is alll depending on the direction and force of the load. If you hear wood popping loudly STOP!!! IT IS STIHL UNDER LOAD! Relieve more wood with more cheese cuts!
Once you do get the trunk severed from the root wad. It may not move until you CAREFULLY buck the top portion of the log.
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In the photo a 260 with a 16" bar was used. I feel this is definitely not the best option fir a saw when buck'n windfall. The more reach the better in my opinion. This blow down only had a minor spring and twist load. However, STIHL enough load to be dangerous enough to cause injury. If a wind fall is severely loaded? Other techniques and cuts must be used, but that pictorial is for another day.😉

Cat safe, stay sharp, and be aware! 👍
 
Always look up. The pictured punky tree got hung up near another dead one me and my cutting buddy were planning on dropping, he was giving me grief until we looked closely at the top of the other tree. Spot 'em? If I hadn't hung up the punky guy we probably wouldn't have noticed them. ALWAYS look up and look hard. They stayed with the tree and didn't try impaling him while he dropped it, but it was still a good reminder to look very closely at all of the sides of trees you're planning to fall.
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Woodslasher said:
Always look up. The pictured punky tree got hung up near another dead one me and my cutting buddy were planning on dropping, he was giving me grief until we looked closely at the top of the other tree. Spot 'em? If I hadn't hung up the punky guy we probably wouldn't have noticed them. ALWAYS look up and look hard. They stayed with the tree and didn't try impaling him while he dropped it, but it was still a good reminder to look very closely at all of the sides of trees you're planning to fall.
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Most definitely! 👍 Gotta keep your head up!!!
 
Kodiak Kid said:
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I've probably seen that video a dozen times, each time makes me think a little bit. Especially since a lot of the trees I'm cutting(when not out on fires) are hazard firs like that...luckily, most of the ones I'm cutting were killed by fire and the decay is usually just in the tops and in the sapwood.

You guys already said it, but that's a pretty shallow face for that tree. If the kerf is starting to close that early in the face, it should trigger some alarms in your head...but without actually being there, I can't really judge the faller on that one. I generally go with deeper faces on the firs I'm cutting at work, as my goal is to "saw lean" into them and not dislodge crap up top by pounding wedges. That being said, I'm lucky to be able to not work by myself, so I've always got a spotter with their attention solely at the top of the tree. Even if they think they see something pop loose, their job is to yell at me at the top of their lungs. I keep my head up the best I can, but there's only so much you can see when at the stump. 🤷‍♂️
 
Sierra_rider said:
I've probably seen that video a dozen times, each time makes me think a little bit. Especially since a lot of the trees I'm cutting(when not out on fires) are hazard firs like that...luckily, most of the ones I'm cutting were killed by fire and the decay is usually just in the tops and in the sapwood.

You guys already said it, but that's a pretty shallow face for that tree. If the kerf is starting to close that early in the face, it should trigger some alarms in your head...but without actually being there, I can't really judge the faller on that one. I generally go with deeper faces on the firs I'm cutting at work, as my goal is to "saw lean" into them and not dislodge crap up top by pounding wedges. That being said, I'm lucky to be able to not work by myself, so I've always got a spotter with their attention solely at the top of the tree. Even if they think they see something pop loose, their job is to yell at me at the top of their lungs. I keep my head up the best I can, but there's only so much you can see when at the stump. 🤷‍♂️
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Definitely hard to say without actually being there. From my experience with snags at that stage is. Often you can only get a gunning cut in so deep before the snag starts to sit down on ya. I know you you're self experienced it also because I remember talking to you about it. Judging from his reaction. The moment it started to rip he was instantly trying to duck out. He was watching and waiting for it. That's why he seldom looks up the deeper he got into his back cut. I don't think the rip opens more than a half inch before he drops the money and runs. I myself may have done wagon wheel horizontal bore reliefs into twords the and up to the hinge. Every other bar width, or maybe even every bar width and a half, or something along those lines. Then hammered that SOB with a big heavy driver from half a tree length away! That may have crossed the Cutters mind as well. However. He might of not had anything in the vicinity big enough too smash it. It may have been a hazard tree next to a camp ground in a national park marked for removal. With all surrounding live timber protected perhaps?
🤔Just too hard to make a sound judgment on what the guy really had to work with without actually being there like you said Sierra.
Great comments bud! Thanks for your input. Good on ya!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!👍
 
One thing is certain! He was very lucky! The most experienced master level cutters have been killed by severe chairs on the steep! Just like this one. Its not one of the world's absolute most dangerous professions, because one day someone woke up and said it was!

We all must be as safe out there as possible Gentleman!👍
 

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