Wrong direction fall - feedback welcome

[ryan1025]

Hey all, I’m new to the forum. Live on a wooded lot. I’ve dropped/cut many trees but just on a homeowner/novice level. I love watching how to tutorials and learning more.

Looking for armchair quarterback feedback on a Norway Maple I fell today. It did not go as planned. This is the first tree that went so wrong for me. I had all PPE and a safety plan and there was no injury or damage.

I’ll attach some pictures to help shape my questions. But basically my questions are was my back cut too high and part of my problem? Did I grossly misjudge the lean? If I cut the far side of the hinge too much (far meaning opposite of where it fell) would this cause the direction of fall?

I cut in the back cut, wedged fully, cut further and ended up cutting a little further than I would’ve thought I’d need to and then it started to fall sideways. Should I have stacked another wedge and left more hinge?

 

[ValleyForge]

Looks like you cut out the hinge. And in my opinion, did back cut too high to start.

But the hinge was the big problem, the tree was going to go where it wanted at that point. you’re lucky….

 

[ryan1025]

Looks like you cut out the hinge. And in my opinion, did back cut too high to start.

But the hinge was the big problem, the tree was going to go where it wanted at that point. you’re lucky….

Yes lucky. I try to pay extra attention to escape route and watching for any movement of the tree. I figured the same…high and too far. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[ValleyForge]

Yes lucky. I try to pay extra attention to escape route and watching for any movement of the tree. I figured the same…high and too far. Thanks for your feedback.

It’s hard to ‘stop’ cutting, I know But you should have at least a 1 inch+ hinge on that tree based on what it’s diameter looks like, then went to wedges only to get it to fall where you wanted. The more you are felling it against the lean, the greater the wedge work But it will go if the hinge is sound…

try and try again, it’s a good lesson to walk away with…

 

[sean donato]

Your darn lucky. Forge pretty much hit it head on. You cut your hinge wood nearly clean off. We've had a gental debate about back cut height but I agree that way too high as well. Going off your picture the wedge was centered too much too to help get it to going against the lean. Some times it's helpful to do your face cut. Then just stop and really think about how much hinge you need and what you want the tree to do. One that hinge is gone you just lost any control you had for directional felling.

 

[ryan1025]

Yes as I told him I realize the luck. I hear what you’re saying. I think if I would have not lost the hinge and then used another wedge it would’ve gone. Knowing the lean, my escape plan was back and right which I did and got out of the way in sufficient time before the tree fell. Thanks for your response.

 

[Mad Professor]

Hinge was cut through. Hard to tell what face cut looked like from pictures. Was there a good wedge taken out so the face would not close. Back cut is too high.

 

[PEK]

We all learn from our mistakes, we all make them and this one you will always remember and thankfully you did not get hurt. If you have any old slightly long stumps practice your gob and hinge cut. And hats off to you for admitting your mistake there are many who would not.

 

[PEK]

This post reminded me about an incident 15 years or so ago. I was helping someone sorting out an overgrown hedge of some ash trees not too big, I was down the hill felling the ash the other chap was at the top, there was an electric pylon wire across the far corner of the hedge, not in the way and the ash tree near it was leaning away from the cable. After a time there was a massive bang, sheep in the field were heading into the distance and horses in the pasture were going ape shxt, went up to check the bloke was okay, there he was with the ash tree resting against the cable with him doing an undercut, ground was damp and I told him to leave it, no its alright he said and done the under cut it pulled the cables together another massive bang. He shouted to me where are you going to which I replied out of your way. He waited until the power people came out, he got charged for the power people to come out. Residents in the village were not very happy having no power. Never did any work like that with him again. Silly fxxxxx had cut thru the hinge and it spun on the stump onto the cable. He was lucky. He should of known better!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

If fold line(front of hinge span) and CoG (Center of Gravity)are at same point/unchanged in scenario:
Tree load pulls forward at same force(same weight, height, angle to same pivot), so forces same resistance against fall forward per thickness of hinge from target. Central machine point pivot of the works is the lean side of fold line(front of hinge span) as most compressed fibers. So on forward lean that is while front row as pivot, but on side lean it is just the end of the foldline towards the lean that is the pivot.
.
But, from cross axis perspective/dimension of sideLean, would have made Tapered Hinge(as try to show here in this thread as also did here some 20yrs ago) of reapprotioned backfield(rear most part of hinge that is most leveraged distance from the pivot) from lean side to yes counter side(That Mr. Dent calls 'offside' in his master's thesis felling guide/bible) as most leverage against side lean. The tree will still fold forward at same force getting same forward resistance in hinge automatically. But we can reassemble the side resistance within the pattern of amounts given. There is a TCI article from partially what started here bleeding over from the initial tree place ISA.bbs(before called forums, so long, long gone now) Article: Tree Care Industry: Greater Falling Accuracy Using the Tapered Hinge. As i try to show here: YouTube: Tree Felling Don't Become a Statistic (~8.30 in felling cuts)
.
Use the Tapered Hinge as counter-ballast against side lean; until tearoff where hinge stops working against acceleration etc.. Allow the counter-ballast to remove/balance out the side lean from the formula
>>to then only reveal in sum the forward force to carry tree home most squarely, w/o front face impediment.
Works also sideways off roofs some too in tree; down is the sidelean to path then, so fat end up; but never expect pure impossible, always give some path of relief, like roof angle...
.
This is the front of Mr. Dent's book:

After pouring over the somewhat cryptic diagrams on inside of book for quite some time,
i came to see a different logic in the cover on outside that reflected loudly those internal diagram scribbles.
See the proud sawyer at salute with chainsaw surgically used;
and saluting back is the just as proud rooster tail of shearing fiber to one side of stump
>>as this remaining mute forensic testimony on offside that had to have a great side lean to the opposing side, to get that massive hinge response from countering backfield offside! There is simply no other way to get that key response, and so to me, what the book is mostly about.
.
In heritage, 1 man chainsaw started in 50's mainstreaming thru 60's; 2 fantastic 1st primal view books written and unsurpassed: the above and
Classic: The Fundamentals of General Tree Work by G.F. Beranek /hosted by Educated Climber.com

 

[chipper1]

If fold line and CoG are at same point/unchanged in scenario:
Tree load pulls forward at same force, so forces same resistance against fall forward per thickness of hinge from target. Central machine point pivot of the works is the lean side of fold line as most compressed fibers.
.
But, from cross axis perspective/dimension of sideLean, would have made Tapered Hinge(as try to show here in this thread as also did here some 20yrs ago) of reapprotioned backfield from lean side to yes counter side(That Mr. Dent calls 'offside' in his master's thesis felling guide/bible) as most leverage against side lean. The tree will still fold forward at same force getting same forward resistance in hinge automatically. But we can reassemble the side resistance within the pattern of amounts given. There is a TCI article from partially what started here bleeding over from the initial tree place ISA.bbs(before called forums, so long, long gone now) Article: Tree Care Industry: Greater Falling Accuracy Using the Tapered Hinge. As i try to show here: YouTube: Tree Felling Don't Become a Statistic (~8.30 in felling cuts)
.
Use the Tapered Hinge as counter-ballast against side lean; until tearoff where hinge stops working against acceleration etc.. Allow the counter-ballast to remove/balance out the side lean from the formula
>>to then only reveal in sum the forward force to carry tree home most squarely, w/o front face impediment.
Works also sideways off roofs some too in tree; down is the sidelean to path then, so fat end up; but never expect pure impossible, always give some path of relief, like roof angle...
.
This is the front of Mr. Dent's book:

After pouring over the somewhat cryptic diagrams on inside of book for quite some time,
i came to see a different logic in the cover on outside that reflected loudly those internal diagram scribbles.
See the proud sawyer at salute with chainsaw surgically used;
and saluting back is the just as proud rooster tail of shearing fiber to one side of stump
>>as this remaining mute forensic testimony on offside that had to have a great side lean to the opposing side, to get that massive hinge response from countering backfield offside! There is simply no other way to get that key response, and so to me, what the book is mostly about.
.
In heritage, 1 man chainsaw started in 50's mainstreaming thru 60's; 2 fantastic 1st primal view books written and unsurpassed: the above and
Classic: The Fundamentals of General Tree Work by G.F. Beranek /hosted by Educated Climber.com

You realize you're speaking another language to someone who knows nothing about falling.

 

[irhunter]

To the OP:

There are two kinds of people who end up with stumps which look like yours.

1. Don't know what should be done.
2. Can not control the saw to produce the desired cut.

The first problem is easily solved. YouTube has super videos produced by the Stihl and Husquvarna corporate offices which show you how to fall trees. I would ignore all other YouTube videos. These are not videos by saw dealers or guys with Stihl banners...trust the ones from the two mother ships.

For the second problem. You need in-person coaching. The problem there is how to find it. There are many people who have run saw for decades who are highly unsafe. I am related to some of those people.

Get a class. Some county extension centers and some state forestry offices run classes. Game of Logging classes are excellent. Some National Forests run classes aimed at volunteers. Art of Felling Timber, in Oregon, is also great.

Many people end up safe fallers without a class...but, if you can find one, get a class.

What the OP did with that pictured tree is dangerous. Good luck.

Roy

 

[GrizG]

Hey all, I’m new to the forum. Live on a wooded lot. I’ve dropped/cut many trees but just on a homeowner/novice level. I love watching how to tutorials and learning more.

Looking for armchair quarterback feedback on a Norway Maple I fell today. It did not go as planned. This is the first tree that went so wrong for me. I had all PPE and a safety plan and there was no injury or damage.

I’ll attach some pictures to help shape my questions. But basically my questions are was my back cut too high and part of my problem? Did I grossly misjudge the lean? If I cut the far side of the hinge too much (far meaning opposite of where it fell) would this cause the direction of fall?

I cut in the back cut, wedged fully, cut further and ended up cutting a little further than I would’ve thought I’d need to and then it started to fall sideways. Should I have stacked another wedge and left more hinge?

Looks like the smidgen of holding wood left held on pretty good judging by how the stump next to it split... Not having any indication of the lean, center of mass, or wind in the photos: if you'd left more hinge it probably would have gone in the desired direction. Generally keep the back cut even with, or less than an inch above, the bottom cut of the face cut to decrease the risk of cutting too deep into the hinge wood.