Why do "Chinesium" chainsaws need a richer oil mix?

[GeneralKayoss]

How about Echo for starters.
German made Stihl and Swedish made Husky are not full of Chinese parts either. But even if they where I trust Stihl or Husky to ensure quality rather than same unreachable company that makes counterfeit copy's of Huskys and Stihls.
How long do you think it will be before the EPA catches on to these counterfeiting schemes?

Stihl has had Chinese manufacturing facilities for almost 20 years now. Most of their cheaper saws are manufactured in China and you can rest assured their sourcing other parts from China as well. Where do you think those ZAMA carbs were made?

https://corporate.stihl.com/en/about-stihl/production-sales/stihl-china

Same with Husqvarna, they have several factories in China now making parts and products. If anything, Echo would probably be the least likely to have Chinese parts even though they're based out of Japan. Now I'm not saying all your pro saws have Farmertec cylinders and pistons or anything - but neither do some of the Farmertec saws. You can get versions with aftermarket Italian cylinders, Meteor pistons, Caber rings, Walbro carbs etc.

 

[echomeister]

When Stihl or any other reputable manufacturer has stuff made in China they police the quality for their own interest. They won't accept poor quality parts from China.

When a no name upstart chainsaw company buys parts from China they say " good enough" to whatever is shipped. Cause they are not protecting a brand name that they care about long term.

Nothing wrong at all with Chinese manufacturing. They provide the quality level their customers desire.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Quality in ANYTHING these days is rare. That's become a 20th-century relic, unfortunately.

15 months ago, I closed up a shop I had run for 14 years. I started off in small engines, then did a majority of automotive work. The stuff being built these days is designed to infuriate the best of us on the best of days, and drive both the customer and technician to drink on the worst. After I quit drinking in 2020, I couldn't handle another minute turning wrenches on this crap. I would've been dead in 3 years had I kept that stress level up!

After seeing the 4-wheeled garbage on the roads these days, I sold my '07 Silverado for a rust-free southwestern 1993 Ram W250 with a Cummins & a 5-speed. My newest vehicle now is a '94 Volvo 940. Neither may be the fastest, or most comfy handling thing on the road, but they do what they're supposed to, ALWAYS, with no frills. And if they do happen to break down, I won't have an aneurysm trying to fix it, nor do I need a $1,500 update to the scan tool I paid $5,000 for ... USED ... that will be obsolete in a few years.

What I've found is this same "QC", or SEVERE lack thereof, runs across EVERY single line of business today. Everything from refrigerators to roller skates is built with low-bidder, offshore garbage and thrown out the door as fast as possible with zero quality control. Not to mention, engineered in the most infuriating of ways!

My brother's step-son bought a '19 Sierra pickup. Looks real pretty, but it's at the dealer right now because no shop would touch it for all the transmission codes it has right now. Not even close to 100k on it yet. Needs a valve body - probably around $4,000 by the time all is said and done. Sign of the times!

 

[dennish]

My little $100 Ebay 25cc top handle is a beast. I love it. Performs beyond expectations. Now running 50:1.

 

[bwalker]

Stihl has had Chinese manufacturing facilities for almost 20 years now. Most of their cheaper saws are manufactured in China and you can rest assured their sourcing other parts from China as well. Where do you think those ZAMA carbs were made?

https://corporate.stihl.com/en/about-stihl/production-sales/stihl-china

Same with Husqvarna, they have several factories in China now making parts and products. If anything, Echo would probably be the least likely to have Chinese parts even though they're based out of Japan. Now I'm not saying all your pro saws have Farmertec cylinders and pistons or anything - but neither do some of the Farmertec saws. You can get versions with aftermarket Italian cylinders, Meteor pistons, Caber rings, Walbro carbs etc.

So you are saying that if Stihl or Husky use some chicom parts it's the same as being a counterfeit Chinese knockoff? It's not.
And I am not impressed with Caber, Meteor, etc. All aftermarket crap IMO.

 

[bwalker]

Quality in ANYTHING these days is rare. That's become a 20th-century relic, unfortunately.

15 months ago, I closed up a shop I had run for 14 years. I started off in small engines, then did a majority of automotive work. The stuff being built these days is designed to infuriate the best of us on the best of days, and drive both the customer and technician to drink on the worst. After I quit drinking in 2020, I couldn't handle another minute turning wrenches on this crap. I would've been dead in 3 years had I kept that stress level up!

After seeing the 4-wheeled garbage on the roads these days, I sold my '07 Silverado for a rust-free southwestern 1993 Ram W250 with a Cummins & a 5-speed. My newest vehicle now is a '94 Volvo 940. Neither may be the fastest, or most comfy handling thing on the road, but they do what they're supposed to, ALWAYS, with no frills. And if they do happen to break down, I won't have an aneurysm trying to fix it, nor do I need a $1,500 update to the scan tool I paid $5,000 for ... USED ... that will be obsolete in a few years.

What I've found is this same "QC", or SEVERE lack thereof, runs across EVERY single line of business today. Everything from refrigerators to roller skates is built with low-bidder, offshore garbage and thrown out the door as fast as possible with zero quality control. Not to mention, engineered in the most infuriating of ways!

My brother's step-son bought a '19 Sierra pickup. Looks real pretty, but it's at the dealer right now because no shop would touch it for all the transmission codes it has right now. Not even close to 100k on it yet. Needs a valve body - probably around $4,000 by the time all is said and done. Sign of the times!

The big three have made crap vehicles for decades...

 

[GeneralKayoss]

So you are saying that if Stihl or Husky use some chicom parts it's the same as being a counterfeit Chinese knockoff? It's not.
And I am not impressed with Caber, Meteor, etc. All aftermarket crap IMO.

Well they're not counterfeit given there are no patents. China is doing the exact same thing we were doing in the 40s and 50s, rapid industrialization. And as they continue their manufacturing will get better and better just as ours did, until they eventually price themselves out of market domination. It's a simple economic cycle, all you can do is make a wave and ride it.

 

[dboyd351]

GK,
You are wasting your time.
If someone is absolutely convinced of something, regardless of having no experience, you are not going to change their mind.

 

[bwalker]

Well they're not counterfeit given there are no patents. China is doing the exact same thing we were doing in the 40s and 50s, rapid industrialization. And as they continue their manufacturing will get better and better just as ours did, until they eventually price themselves out of market domination. It's a simple economic cycle, all you can do is make a wave and ride it.

Models aren't patented... and no they are not.
They are illegal counterfeits pure and simple.

 

[GeneralKayoss]

Models aren't patented... and no they are not.
They are illegal counterfeits pure and simple.

The only reason they were able to start making them is because Stihl and Husky let their parents expire... This is common knowledge. Theres nothing illegal about them. Unless you want to complain about spark arrestor screens or something.

 

[Chucksta]

Let me whip out my small member status, ( yes .. pun intended), and pour a bit more gas on the fire..

Let's do some Math!! Everybody loves Math, Right?

Chinesium Vs Name brand Math!!

The main thing that we're going to look at today, Class, is the value of your time.. And, the initial cost of your saw.

On one side, we have the Notorious "Chinesium" saw, on the other side, we have the reputable Name Brand saw! ( pick your favourite brand.. Stihl, Echo, Husky, Jonsred, etc.. at 3 to 4 times the cost!! But... Let's dive further!! Shall we?

Now, to do the math, we must get into some tricky equations..

Here are the variables.. Regardless of the saw's Manufacturer...

1) CC, to CC.. ( Eg:.. 2 60 CC saws). With fresh chains, how long to cut an 18 inch round or slice?

2) Fuel consumption.. How many CCs' or ounces of fuel to cut a face cord? Chinesium VS Name Brand. Also price per CC or ounce of fuel.

3) How many hours of operation before replacement.. No.. not before some work or rebuild.. How many hours before it sees the bench.

4) Do you cut casually, just for your self, or do you run a crew? Commercially for company profit?


Now, let's do some fun Math, on cutting speed..

Let's say, just for _(*^'s and giggles .. that a "Name Brand" saw runs each cut 10 seconds quicker , per cut, than it's competitor..
If you're cutting all day.. 150 cuts a day, you saved 1,500 seconds.. divided by 60 ( seconds in a minute ), you saved 25 minutes.

25 minutes day, times 5 days a week, is just over 2 hours..

For month, that's just under 9 hours. Literally, an Employees full days' wages..

After a year, the cost of a name brand saw, is compensated by the savings of time.

There's more... much more to it than that, but I think I made my point..

 

[GeneralKayoss]

There's more... much more to it than that, but I think I made my point..

Your entire point assumes that a name brand saw is going to cut 10 seconds faster. Meanwhile in reality...... more like 1.5s. And that's the base model G660, not the Pro. Pro model is right there with and possibly faster than the 661.



I'm not saying anyone doing professional work day in and day out is better off to go buy a Chinese saw. I'm just saying they're viable and cheaper alternatives.

 

[Burning man]

Let me whip out my small member status, ( yes .. pun intended), and pour a bit more gas on the fire..

Let's do some Math!! Everybody loves Math, Right?

Chinesium Vs Name brand Math!!

The main thing that we're going to look at today, Class, is the value of your time.. And, the initial cost of your saw.

On one side, we have the Notorious "Chinesium" saw, on the other side, we have the reputable Name Brand saw! ( pick your favourite brand.. Stihl, Echo, Husky, Jonsred, etc.. at 3 to 4 times the cost!! But... Let's dive further!! Shall we?

Now, to do the math, we must get into some tricky equations..

Here are the variables.. Regardless of the saw's Manufacturer...

1) CC, to CC.. ( Eg:.. 2 60 CC saws). With fresh chains, how long to cut an 18 inch round or slice?

2) Fuel consumption.. How many CCs' or ounces of fuel to cut a face cord? Chinesium VS Name Brand. Also price per CC or ounce of fuel.

3) How many hours of operation before replacement.. No.. not before some work or rebuild.. How many hours before it sees the bench.

4) Do you cut casually, just for your self, or do you run a crew? Commercially for company profit?


Now, let's do some fun Math, on cutting speed..

Let's say, just for _(*^'s and giggles .. that a "Name Brand" saw runs each cut 10 seconds quicker , per cut, than it's competitor..
If you're cutting all day.. 150 cuts a day, you saved 1,500 seconds.. divided by 60 ( seconds in a minute ), you saved 25 minutes.

25 minutes day, times 5 days a week, is just over 2 hours..

For month, that's just under 9 hours. Literally, an Employees full days' wages..

After a year, the cost of a name brand saw, is compensated by the savings of time.

There's more... much more to it than that, but I think I made my point..

You forgot the hours of parts swapping for chinesium.

 

[lone wolf]

Your entire point assumes that a name brand saw is going to cut 10 seconds faster. Meanwhile in reality...... more like 1.5s. And that's the base model G660, not the Pro. Pro model is right there with and possibly faster than the 661.

Faster to blow up, for sure!

 

[thompsoncustom]

 

[GeneralKayoss]

Even seeing it they still wont believe it!

 

[bwalker]

The only reason they were able to start making them is because Stihl and Husky let their parents expire... This is common knowledge. Theres nothing illegal about them. Unless you want to complain about spark arrestor screens or something.

Common amongst people that don't have a clue. Patents cover a technology, not a model... there never was a patent on the Stihl 066 or Husky 372xp.
They are completely illegal. No emmisions on them and they are counterfeit.

 

[thompsoncustom]

Let me whip out my small member status, ( yes .. pun intended), and pour a bit more gas on the fire..

Let's do some Math!! Everybody loves Math, Right?

Chinesium Vs Name brand Math!!

The main thing that we're going to look at today, Class, is the value of your time.. And, the initial cost of your saw.

On one side, we have the Notorious "Chinesium" saw, on the other side, we have the reputable Name Brand saw! ( pick your favourite brand.. Stihl, Echo, Husky, Jonsred, etc.. at 3 to 4 times the cost!! But... Let's dive further!! Shall we?

Now, to do the math, we must get into some tricky equations..

Here are the variables.. Regardless of the saw's Manufacturer...

1) CC, to CC.. ( Eg:.. 2 60 CC saws). With fresh chains, how long to cut an 18 inch round or slice?

2) Fuel consumption.. How many CCs' or ounces of fuel to cut a face cord? Chinesium VS Name Brand. Also price per CC or ounce of fuel.

3) How many hours of operation before replacement.. No.. not before some work or rebuild.. How many hours before it sees the bench.

4) Do you cut casually, just for your self, or do you run a crew? Commercially for company profit?


Now, let's do some fun Math, on cutting speed..

Let's say, just for _(*^'s and giggles .. that a "Name Brand" saw runs each cut 10 seconds quicker , per cut, than it's competitor..
If you're cutting all day.. 150 cuts a day, you saved 1,500 seconds.. divided by 60 ( seconds in a minute ), you saved 25 minutes.

25 minutes day, times 5 days a week, is just over 2 hours..

For month, that's just under 9 hours. Literally, an Employees full days' wages..

After a year, the cost of a name brand saw, is compensated by the savings of time.

There's more... much more to it than that, but I think I made my point..

what happens when the name brand saw goes down and you lose one week or more waiting for service? Than the clone saw easily wins for the year since you can have 3 to 4 spares on hand for the saw initial cost. Or for the same initial cost you could take a clone saw and replace whatever parts with OEM you want, have it ported, and keep a spare clone saw on hand than not only does it cut faster than the OEM saw and have the same fuel consumption/rebuild time you also have a spare.

 

[thompsoncustom]

Even seeing it they still wont believe it!

True, unlike most that comment I've ran and worked on both and I'm not saying the clone saws are 110% of the OEM saws or anything as I've seen some really nasty cylinders in some of them but for the price they are great and you put the right OEM parts on one they are just as good and cheaper.

 

[NSEric]

I compare the clone saws to husky/stihl saws based on price not cc.
My joncutter 5800 cost less than a 30cc husky but cuts twice as fast and has never broke in 4 years. As a cheap homeowner saw they're top dog IMO.
My neotech892 (stihl660 clone) cost about what a 450 rancher does but will cut much larger wood than it can or normal sized fire wood really fast.
Quality wise the small Zenoah clones are better than the 660 clones, I had to swap some oem stuff onto the neotech892.