ArboristSite.com Sponsors
 
 


98' Bandit 250xp chips

Discussion in 'Commercial Tree Care and Climbing' started by Wolfking42084, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. Blakesmaster

    Blakesmaster Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    657
    Location:
    NY
    Adjusting your anvil and knives will help you immensely.
     
  2. imagineero

    imagineero Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,205
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    blue mountains australia
    It's a common problem, and it isn't that hard to fix. The biggest cause I usually find is worn and incorrectly gapped anvil. The anvil must be square edged. Without a good square anvil properly adjusted, new knives do very little. With sharp knives and a good anvil and proper gap (1/8") logs actually 'suck in', they don't sit in the gap between the rollers and the disk any more. Without this, you're really driving the logs into the machine, putting a lot of stress on it, and sometimes the feed wheels are still struggling to get a grip. With sharp blades, a sharp anvil and correct gap, the feedwheels are actually slowing the log down! They have an easy time. If you lift the feedwheel while branches are not completely fed in yet, the branches will get sucked in quick, just like a chuck n duck.

    That covers 90% of it. The rest of it is just basics; feed logs end on, try to chip downhill if you're on a slope, feed a branch through after the last log, make sure your engine speed is set right.
     
  3. jimmycrackcorn

    jimmycrackcorn ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    129
    Location:
    BOS
    Hey dude! Thanks..That solidifies my suspicion! I guarantee that thing is all out of wack as the chipper came with a bunch of different knives, all significantly different sizes. Also the gap where you adjust the anvil on the outside is pretty big compared to this picture. This pic is a 250, we have a 254, could it being a different model be another reason for a bigger gap. I'm going on photographic memory here so I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the actual anvil is visible on ours like it is here. Could it be maxed out on adjustment & be somewhat hidden?
    [​IMG]
    Now, I've seen the bandit tutorials on servicing the anvil, for some reason I got it stuck in my head that once you adjust the anvil you have to realign/adjust the belts... I don't know why I think that but I could of sworn I heard it in that video or a different one by bandit. You don't have to do that right?
     
  4. imagineero

    imagineero Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,205
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    blue mountains australia
    The gap doesn't really matter that much, the gap between the blades and anvil, and the condition of the anvil are critical. You do not have to adjust or align the belts when doing the anvil.

    An anvil with a round edge really sucks a lot of power out of the machine... the chips try to 'roll' round the edge instead of chipping clean. Just like trying to cut paper with blunt scissors. End result is a lot of tearing and wasted energy, bigger chips, and very twiggy output on smalll stuff. To compensate, most guys will reduce the anvil gap. All this does is wears your anvil out even faster and quickly makes your situation worse. It increases the stress on your disk bearings too.

    IMG_0999.JPG

    Here's a 'before'. Anvil has been totally screwed. Not only is the edge not crisp and square, but the entire anvil has been lunched on by the baldes over time, chamfering it at 45 degrees. Combination of blunt blades, worn bearings and incorrectly set anvil gap brought about this destruction. No need to drop 400 big boys on a new anvil though;

    IMG_1001.JPG

    A quick tidy up with a flap disk to get bare metal exposed, then a couple beads with a mig welder and a tidy up with a grinder brings 4 new edges back to this anvil in about half an hour. Nice crisp square edge the whole way along, and nice and straight.
     
    Wolfking42084 likes this.
  5. gorman

    gorman AboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    South County Rhode Island
    If using a rod, what type do you recommend for this type of hard surfacing on an anvil?
     
  6. jimmycrackcorn

    jimmycrackcorn ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    129
    Location:
    BOS
    Wow, thanks for those pictures & extra explanation. Is the reason for adding a few beads of weld because there isn't enough adjustment left after the grind to make proper clearances?
     
  7. imagineero

    imagineero Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,205
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    blue mountains australia
    Some guys talk up hardfacing on anvils, but I'm not a fan of it. I just use ER70S2 in my mig because that's what I happen to have. If I was going to stick weld it I'd use 7016's in 2.4mm and not too much current.

    I did a lot of hardfacing of augers, grader blades, shovel teeth etc both with mig and stick and it does increase the life of edges that get a lot of abrasion wear. For edges that get a lot of impact wear, hardfacing is not generally a good idea. There's all kinds of hardfacing, and some proprietary sacrifical plates that can be welded on made out of chromium carbides etc, and they all have different characteristics, but a good general rule for plain vanilla welded hardfacing is that it leaves a brittle edge that's more prone to chipping/cracking. One layer is not so bad, particularly if you have the current on your machine up high since the hardfacing combines with the metalurgy of the piece being hardfaced, and you end up with an alloy. If you weld a second pass over that, it gets a whole lot harder and more brittle though! Many welded hardfacings are put on cold so they sit proud and don't combine much. If you put a second pass on top, they often crack as your welding them. To me, the anvil surface is an impact surface and I'd rather have something a little softer there. I don't know the metallurgy of it.

    I used to hardface some of my own tools, till I read about a fatality that occured with a guy doing the same. He made and hardfaced some of his own small tools like punches, cold chisels etc, which is something I used to do also. While working with a punch one day, he started to get real tired, and dizzy. Felt like he couldn't breathe and had to have a sit down. Passed out and died not long after. Turned out the tip of the punch had broken when he struck it with the sledge, and pierced his lung causing it to fill with blood. I cut up all my hardfaced tools with an oxy that day and threw them in the scrap bin. Don't ever apply hardfacing to impact tools, hammers, chisels and striking surfaces etc.
     
  8. imagineero

    imagineero Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,205
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    blue mountains australia

    I didn't build the whole surface up, just the missing part. I would have had to grind 3/8" or more off the whole anvil otherwise.
     
  9. Wolfking42084

    Wolfking42084 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Waynesville, NC
    So....Finally used the 250xp today, the first time since flipping the anvil and adjusting the gap. It was making an excellent chip, however, it still doesn't blow them out with any force. Chipping stuff onto the ground today, my farthest chip went maybe 15 feet. The guy I bought t off of had told me that he had just changed the belts...could this have something to do with the lack of force?? please help!!
     
  10. jimmycrackcorn

    jimmycrackcorn ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    129
    Location:
    BOS
    I wonder what engine you have? There are a few different options available in these things, some with more power than others. I beleive we have the cummins 4bt in our 254, I thought it had some balls but seen a friend of ours running his 250, it sounded like it ran with much more authority. Only thing I could think of was it had a bigger engine.

    Did yours use to throw further? I'm always chipping into a dump so I can't help you with a comparison.
     
  11. Wolfking42084

    Wolfking42084 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Waynesville, NC
    I have the cummins 4bt as well. My old 200xp with a 4bt also, will sling the chips


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. jimmycrackcorn

    jimmycrackcorn ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    129
    Location:
    BOS
    I've read that some if those 4bt Cummins have adjustable fuel pumps. I wonder if that would be a easy way to gain extra power. As simple as they are, I wish I knew more about tweaking them. I'm currently looking to ditch the powerstroke I have & jump to cummins just for the ease of working on them. So much room in the engine bay.

    Anyways back to the topic, what does it sound like? Is it running correctly? Fuel filters plugged up, air filters clogged, sticky injectors? These things get run in a horrible environment.. Especially the radiator placement. Our clogs & overheats if not maintained daily. The fins in the radiator get caked beyond belief.
     
  13. Wolfking42084

    Wolfking42084 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Waynesville, NC
    The motor sounds great. I don't know the exact RPMs, but it is turning where I think it should(based on very other bandit that I've been around). Loose belts? Motor would be turning fine, but not turning the disc at the speed it should?
     
  14. jimmycrackcorn

    jimmycrackcorn ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    129
    Location:
    BOS
    Could very well be loose belts, maybe they only slip under load. The only way I think you would be able to tell while under load would be by smelling as it's so friggin loud you wouldnt be able to hear. Open the hatch & see if they are melted or really smooth or loose.

    Belts arent the only thing that can slip either.. What happens when the clutch is adjusted all the way down to the last notch & worn out? Would that cause it to not be engaged fully?

    Btw, Our 254 with the 4bt runs @2800 incase you needed a reference.
     
  15. Wolfking42084

    Wolfking42084 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Waynesville, NC
  16. VA-Sawyer

    VA-Sawyer Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    328
    Location:
    Candler, NC
    If it isn't under a chipping load the disk will be up to full rpm. Shove in a long fairly straight 6 to 8 inch branch. Listen to the cutting speed. If the belts are slipping, you will hear the cutting speed slow down. Normally, if they are slipping, you will hear them squeal when engaging the clutch. If the clutch was slipping you should be able to smell it.
    Are the air paddles in good shape?

    JCC posted while I was typing.
     
    imagineero likes this.
  17. Wolfking42084

    Wolfking42084 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Waynesville, NC
    They seem to be in really good shape. How should the belt tension be with the clutch not engaged?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. VA-Sawyer

    VA-Sawyer Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    328
    Location:
    Candler, NC
    The clutch should not affect belt tension. I assume you have a Twin-Disk clutch or a similar design. Belts should be just tight enough, not to squeal, when the clutch is engaged a bit on the harsh side. Disk not turning, engine at about 1000 rpms.
     
    imagineero likes this.
  19. imagineero

    imagineero Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,205
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    blue mountains australia
    It would help if you get a video up. If you can't manage a video maybe a few photos. One of the disk cover taken from the discharge side, one with the cover open showing the paddles and bolt area, one from the front of the disk showing the blades, and another showing your anvil gap.

    Without more information we're really just shooting blind. Could be so many things. Does it not have a tach? Engine speed would be one possibility, anvil shape and gap another, air paddles, scooped out/worn area behind the cutting blades, some sort of chute blockage, air not getting into the disk area, etc etc...

    For what it's worth, I've got the perkins 120 turbo and with a good anvil and blades it throws the chip hard enough it lifts the chute with logs. The furthest remnants of chip will unfortunately travel as far as 70' of the chute manages to rotate itself clear of the truck :-( You can easily throw the bulk of it 35~40' when shipping onto the ground.
     
  20. Wolfking42084

    Wolfking42084 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Waynesville, NC
    I think you and arborlicious were right about the scalloped out disc behind the blades. Can I just fill it with weld, or can I add a piece of plate steel to cover that entire area?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page