A question to all contract climbers

[treeman82]

For all those who climb for various other companies, what do you do when a big storm comes rolling in? I've got 3 or 4 different companies, and then my own that I climb for. I'd have to say that I come first, but then I have my choices between:

The one who pays the best
The one I have known the longest
The one who I work the best with

Any thoughts on the subject?

 

[Husky137]

The one who pays.

 

[Blinky]

The one you trust to treat you right...

It wasn't tree business but I used to work emergencies and shutdowns as a troubleshooter and had similar choices.

Obviously you have to take care of your customers first or you'll lose them, that would be bad in most cases.

If you go for the top buck you get a rep as a mercenary and you get less regular calls and people don't hesitate to push you too hard and/or drop you the second something cheaper comes along.

The one you've known the longest doesn't mean a lot unless they are also the one you trust the most... unless you owe them, in that case, pay your debt.

The one you work with the best is probably the one you trust the most and that's where the balance will be, best pay for the best work. I once had to tell my best customer, who was also the one paying the lowest hourly rate, that I was torn between responding to his calls first and responding to another customer who paid top dollar. He didn't bat an eye and said he would match the higher rate if I would respond to him first... best customer I ever had.

Just my opinion.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The most important thing is to let them know who will be first on the list. You don't want somebody counting on you, and have hard feelings when the storm hits, and your loyalty is elsewhere.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Got my cert treeworker #449 in '92 and quit my city job and free-lanced for the next 9 years. Made alot of money and got near burn't out. I realized I was basically a piece of equiptment or tool and I needed to think of my future. So I got my Arborist cert and an Operations manager job with a company that cares. Never looked back.
Jeff Lovstrom WE#7624

 

[Ekka]

Tough question especially if you weigh up the individuals affected for not working with them.

The one who pays best ... put them all on equal ground for starters, same dough same cough up period. So that eliminates this bias.

The one I have known the longest ... how are you going to meet new people if ya hang around all the old. Variety is the spice, whilst long term relationships are good they can be imposing and expected to get something others dont. In larger organisations deadwooding is common, the old goes for new dynamic individuals.

The one who I work the best with ... this is important as your safety and efficiency is at hand. Also this could be an old or new mob, good or bad payer, so make it a criteria for all your contracts. Lots of climbers bring their own groundy these days, dont work with or for idiots is a good policy. If they want to have you they need to lift their game and know what they're doing.

I would satisfy the above criteria and book them on a first come first serve basis ... that is neither prejudiced or discriminative in any way. If one guy wants to book you solid and to hell with the rest ... the bells should be going off, dont put all your eggs in one basket. Ration yourself out fairly, 2 days each etc.

I see many contract climbers get hooked up with a company deep, they end up OWNED by them, if times get quiet or things go bad you make it hard for yourself to get new businesses trusting your skills.

 

[trevmcrev]

The companies that you climb for really are your customers. If they use you regularly then they are probably your best customers if you add up total sales $ and number of transactions for the year compared to your own private customers. In a lot of ways it could be worth looking after the best of them when a storm hits than a couple of once off clients that come directly to your business.

Just another idea.

Trev

 

[Ekka]

So true Trev

How do you go with this thinking.

Oh, I work for XYZ company and get $250 a day but if I go do my own job I could make quadruple that. The other day I smashed down this job for XYZ and he made like $1500 and I got **** $250.

So why should I go do his job when I can do me own and make heaps more? burp hiccup hiccup

Ever heard that before??????

So ole contract climber becomes gold digger and shows when he aint got his own job and starts getting a bit too nosey around ya business and customers. hmmmm

Some companies have a conflict of interest clause and if their staff do their own side jobs etc it's hatchet time.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Obviously you have to take care of your customers first or you'll lose them, that would be bad in most cases.

If you go for the top buck you get a rep as a mercenary and you get less regular calls and people don't hesitate to push you too hard and/or drop you the second something cheaper comes along.

The one you've known the longest doest't mean a lot unless they are also the one you trust the most... unless you owe them, in that case, pay your debt.

The one you work with the best is probably the one you trust the most and that's where the balance will be, best pay for the best work. I once had to tell my best customer, who was also the one paying the lowest hourly rate, that I was torn between responding to his calls first and responding to another customer who paid top dollar. He didn't bat an eye and said he would match the higher rate if I would respond to him first... best customer I ever had.

Just my opinion.

Good post Blinky, i agree.

I personally work for company's i enjoy to work for the most, its a big thing, not enjoying your work makes it hard to get out of bed in the morning.

The company's i enjoy working for are ones i can trust and have a good relationship with. They pay EVERY time on time.

Money is of course plays major part, but if your a good climber they will be happy to pay what you charge. Look after them, they look after you - fair is fair.

When it come to private jobs, be very careful not to trod on affiliated company's toes. Customers that go behind a company's back to get a cheep direct rate from a contractor for a cheep deal are NOT the sort of client you want. If they ever want anything else done they wont call you back, they will get who ever is the cheapest. I agree with Trev, look after your major clients - company's, like they look after you.

What ever comes around, goes around.

 

[trevmcrev]

So true Trev

How do you go with this thinking.

Oh, I work for XYZ company and get $250 a day but if I go do my own job I could make quadruple that. The other day I smashed down this job for XYZ and he made like $1500 and I got **** $250.

So why should I go do his job when I can do me own and make heaps more? burp hiccup hiccup

Ever heard that before??????

So ole contract climber becomes gold digger and shows when he aint got his own job and starts getting a bit too nosey around ya business and customers. hmmmm

Some companies have a conflict of interest clause and if their staff do their own side jobs etc it's hatchet time.

Yeah thats why for the last 6 years ive only had full time staff (i prefer team) as my crew. Have just started using a subby climber again though but he seems to be very much on the right track so im happy to have him. He's just started out subbing so at this stage he appreciates that i give him 2 set days every week. While the other jokers he's working for keep cancelling at the last minute coz they dont have their **** organized. What you give out you get back.

Trev

 

[Dadatwins]

If you have your own company that should be the one that pays you the most, freelancing for others when your own work gets slow is fine for extra $$$. As for your storm scenario, I would assume you would give higher priority to your own customers first, since this is where your company will be recognized and recomended for more work. Dropping your customers to free -lance for another company for a quick $$ not good business IMHO, have to think long term and build your own customers, eventually the other companies might be subing for you

 

[beowulf343]

For all those who climb for various other companies, what do you do when a big storm comes rolling in? I've got 3 or 4 different companies, and then my own that I climb for. I'd have to say that I come first, but then I have my choices between:

The one who pays the best
The one I have known the longest
The one who I work the best with

Any thoughts on the subject?

Like several guys have already said, for me its the company I work best with. There's nothing worse than doing a job for an outfit you can't stand, can't trust, or who are cheap and ????? and moan about having to pay you. I've got four different outfits that I've been contract climbing for for several years. They are all good crews, pay well, and I have known some of the guys for over a decade. When a storm comes, it is first come first served among these four outfits. Usually busy enough that I have to turn down offers from any other company.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Once you've been doing it a while you have agreements with your regular clientel.

The ones that pay me the most on a per job/hour basis are the ones I work with the least. Those that give me the most work, but overall most money/work get a lower rate to start with.

With my oldest/best clients we've agreed that when risk goes up, my pay goes up so that i will be there for them if they need me.

One point is that I've not traveled out of state for 2-3 years. Less gross income, but also less overhead.

So to get to your question, you can arrange things with those you work the best with to buffer the loss of income you icure by not going to the best paying. Then maybe work with the others once or twice to keep them happy.

I just make sure that my terciary clients know that the primary ones allways coem first.

 

[Gopher]

Great words spoken here

These comments are spoken beautifully here. The focus with all climbers here is human safety, then tree health, then pay.

We all have had jobs where we all of a sudden felt "rushed" because it "just wasn't going the way it was planned" and the end of the day pay wasn't going to add up. I stay away from these now.

Enjoying being in the tree, feeling safe with whom I am with, and generally making decent pay add up to a satisfying life.

JPS's comment about risk is correct; remember to get the full pay even if the job went quickly - the risk is still the same even if you figured out a way to do the tree in half the time.

A client/friend of mine told me a couple of years ago (oh, he's a very wealthy client), "paying people for a job well done makes friends; paying them on time keeps friends." So, after all is said and done, if the pay is not adequate or timely, are we really going to go to that place first in their time of need?

 

[treeseer]

What are your longterm goals?

if to build your own biz, focus on those, and seek referrals and new clients.

If to be a sub, help the ones who are the most tree-friendly.

 

[Husky137]

He's too busy burning bridges and letting the client get under his skin.

 

[treeman82]

I'd gladly do my own jobs, first. However if they can be done while in the process of helping other companies then that works too.

 

[okietreedude1]

I dont under stand everyones 'who pays the most' thing. As a sub dont you set your rate, whether hourly or daily, and thats that? Either the co pays or finds a cheaper sub.

If all the contractors paid the same, they should all be on the same playing field as far as the pay goes. The only way it would be different is one contractor using you more than the others. If this where the case, Id think they would be the contractor you prefered to work with (safety, functionality) and therefore the clear cut answer to your question.

If you have a cont. you dont like for what ever reason, why are you still working for him? If there is a problem, let them know. Either they fix it or you stop working for them.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I dont under stand everyones 'who pays the most' thing. As a sub dont you set your rate, whether hourly or daily, and thats that? Either the co pays or finds a cheaper sub.

I will raise my rate for companies that are less experianced, or generally work with bigger trees.

We could use Gopher as an example. He does the small trees and saves the big ones for people who are more comfortable in them. A lot of his work is on old money properties with very old hardwoods.

I have some clients who are startups, and need a top climber. In IMO I'm assuming more liability with these people then with my Jerry Smith, for whom I work msot every Monday.

If you have a cont. you dont like for what ever reason, why are you still working for him? If there is a problem, let them know. Either they fix it or you stop working for them.

That is a given, I've walked away from a few people who made me uncomfortable. What i was trying to say is that some people I am more comfortable working with, for whatever reason. One client I've been with, on and off, since 1993. He's not set up to pay my top rate, and I like him. But i only work with him once or twice a month these days.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

When hurricanes came thru here; i tried to honorably take care of those that had the best ongoing relationship and pay with. But; also in such an emergency; a lot of times it came down to who had the closest work, quickest jobs/ but of real need. Because part of the consideration came to be how many people could be helped in total; with the least amount of driving, blocked roads, setup etc. that would detract from total productivity time to help as many people get thru it all.