Pole Barn project

[konnan1]

Hello,

Was hoping to get a bit of advice. I purchased a woodland mills bandsaw last year, and am very happy with it. This summer will be the first big project in building a 28x32 garage/wood shed to enclose the woodstove and store the wood.

I'm planning on doing 12' footings with brackets, and 6x6 posts....I was 'hoping' to use wood from my property for the posts instead of going PT. I have a lot of poplar, cedar, some maple and ash. Would any of those be suitable to posts? I was hoping cedar...

Any advise would be great!

 

[Trx250r180]

cedar ,the last stuff i put in the ground i painted with roofing tar to hope it lasts longer ,concrete may keep it dry too ,stuff i just direct buried was starting to rot when i pulled the poles out 10 years later

 

[konnan1]

Good to know, now this might be a dumb question, but how bad would it be if I cut and milled 6x6 cedar posts and used them right away without drying them?

As long as cedar can hold the load, that would save me buying PT posts, I'm doing siding so it 'shouldn't' ever get too wet.

 

[Trx250r180]

Good to know, now this might be a dumb question, but how bad would it be if I cut and milled 6x6 cedar posts and used them right away without drying them?

As long as cedar can hold the load, that would save me buying PT posts, I'm doing siding so it 'shouldn't' ever get too wet.

They will hold the load up and down fine ,they are a little softer to hold nails ,but fine ,if you pour in concrete when poles are wet they may shrink some would be only drawback ,i have had some boards shrink 1/8 to 1/4 after milled right when the tree was fell ,if the logs have been down 6 months or so shrinkage not so bad ,i get more stable boards out of logs that have been down a while 6 months plus ,but they are are a little harder to cut being drier ,if put in concrete should last a long time i would think

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Buy the PT post if you want it to last a long time. Very FEW natural woods will last in the ground, especially if the ground is damp, and NOTHING "you" can buy will make your poles last longer! Keep in mind, the post expand and contract, so water gets under tar, cement holds the water closer to the post and rot begins.

Another option is to buy steel columns or pour cement columns, then use your wood over them. Just keep in mind, to protect your lumber from touching cement which will attract moisture.

SR

 

[GrantD]

It really depends on the type of cedar. They all have different shrinkage rates, and there are a few factors that will play into it also. Moisture content of the lumber is a biggie.

Also keep-in-mind, back in the old days they cut and used lumber all the time to build barns and out-buildings while the wood was still green.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

And those OLD barns were built out of OLD GROWTH tree's, something we don't have now days... And, that's a BIGGIE!

I have no problem using green lumber but I do have a problem with it near or touching the ground.

SR

 

[konnan1]

And those OLD barns were built out of OLD GROWTH tree's, something we don't have now days... And, that's a BIGGIE!

I have no problem using green lumber but I do have a problem with it near or touching the ground.

SR

What if the cement footing/tubes were raised a bit off the ground and I just bolt it on with a bracket from there? So say 4' deep below ground, and a 1/2' above? I'm in a really dry/sandy area as well.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

That works as long as your pole doesn't touch the cement and the ground is sloped so NO water gets to the pole. You just have to keep moisture away from the poles.

I'd be picky about the grade of the poles too, make sure there are no big knots in them ect... Cedar is pretty soft, I'd probably used bolts in high stress area's, like header connections ect...

SR

 

[GrantD]

Another option is to buy steel columns or pour cement columns, then use your wood over them. Just keep in mind, to protect your lumber from touching cement which will attract moisture.

SR

^^^ this man speaks the truth.

You also should be able to find a galvanized piece from the local hardware store to anchor into the concrete, that will anchor your post too. I'll get a pic of what I used to replace some rotting posts at my father's house last year if you'd like. It raised the post about a 1/4" off the footer we poured for the post.

 

[GrantD]

And those OLD barns were built out of OLD GROWTH tree's, something we don't have now days... And, that's a BIGGIE!

SR

Truth. That's also why you see so many engineered joist/lumber used now, due to the short rotation lumber sold.

 

[konnan1]

^^^ this man speaks the truth.

You also should be able to find a galvanized piece from the local hardware store to anchor into the concrete, that will anchor your post too. I'll get a pic of what I used to replace some rotting posts at my father's house last year if you'd like. It raised the post about a 1/4" off the footer we poured for the post.

That would be great - that sounds like what I was planning on using. Maybe I'm using the wrong term, but it's an anchor I place in the cement footer and then place the post in that bracket or anchor and bolt it through. So the wood is technically touching the metal, not the cement. Is that what your referring to?

 

[GrantD]

That would be great - that sounds like what I was planning on using. Maybe I'm using the wrong term, but it's an anchor I place in the cement footer and then place the post in that bracket or anchor and bolt it through. So the wood is technically touching the metal, not the cement. Is that what your referring to?

Yup.

Here's a few pics

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[konnan1]

Yup.

Here's a few pics

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes! This is what I was planning on using with the post's. So maybe I will give cedar a try. Those are some wide footings!

 

[GrantD]

Yeah, they're a lil over built. But in order to pull the old posts and footings we had to dig quite a bit, and deep. Plus it can intermittently see some weight up on the deck above


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sawyer Rob]

"IF" your post isn't going to be in the ground, or have moisture getting to it, you don't have to use cedar.

SR

 

[konnan1]

"IF" your post isn't going to be in the ground, or have moisture getting to it, you don't have to use cedar.

SR

Good to know! Thanks - the most easily accessible woods are cedars and poplars on my property, I'm guessing cedar would be preferable in that case just on the off chance some moisture did get through...?

 

[Mike from Maine]

Perma columns or laminated 2x6 posts (pt below grade)

 

[SDB777]

Most old barns around here were constructed using Bald Cypress{Taxodium distichum} on top of flat field stone foundations. Not sure I have even seen a barn made from ERC{Juniperus virginiana}(of western cedar{Thuja plicata})? If I did, I sure didn't realize it.

PT timber doesn't take well with ground contact either(in central Arkansas), got two years out of one before it rotted. So don't believe that PT is the 'answer to everything timber'. Osage Orange{Maclura pomifera} seems to hold up better then most timbers here(but it may not be available for you to mill in your area).


Why were you wanting to use 'Cedar', do you just have a lot of the stuff?





Scott (I see old growth everywhere in the forums) B

 

[konnan1]

Most old barns around here were constructed using Bald Cypress{Taxodium distichum} on top of flat field stone foundations. Not sure I have even seen a barn made from ERC{Juniperus virginiana}(of western cedar{Thuja plicata})? If I did, I sure didn't realize it.

PT timber doesn't take well with ground contact either(in central Arkansas), got two years out of one before it rotted. So don't believe that PT is the 'answer to everything timber'. Osage Orange{Maclura pomifera} seems to hold up better then most timbers here(but it may not be available for you to mill in your area).


Why were you wanting to use 'Cedar', do you just have a lot of the stuff?

Yes,... well Cedar and poplar, and I just assumed Cedar would be better long term for rot resistance. Originally I has going to buy either Hemlock or PT posts for $30 a pop, but thought I'd ask you guys first. If I can mill poplar or cedar if would just save me a bit of coin. I have other species on the lot, but noting as good size wise as those two, and the ash I usually cut for firewood. These would be thrown up with only a month or two of air drying as well which I know isn't ideal....but I don't care if it's pretty, just need something to store wood in and keep the mill out of the elements. After the posts/truss'/roof is up, I'll do board and batten siding to keep the posts dry.