scoring in 046....how bad is this

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I'm not taking the bait anymore. Can you burn oak that's been cut 3 months? Yes. Should you? I don't know. I've never had a chimney fire due to creosote from green wood. If your neighbor's house is still standing, he's probably right. Point is, I've rebuilt a couple hundred 2 strokes for myself and friends, so I KNOW what it takes to get aluminum off a cylinder wall. I would imagine that if transfer was minimal, a scotch Brite pad may remove it. But it's hard to make that call over the Internet looking at pics. If acid is used, it's quite evident when it's all gone. Hence my original reply. I figured the OP was a noob, and didn't want to confuse him as to what/what not to do. The acid technique works well in this situation because there doesn't appear to be any heavy transfer near port edges or any deep grooves through the nikasil below ring travel. It's a 15 minute job at minimal cost. Mastermind's method works very well for a seasoned builder who knows what to look for and has tools to do it. Even after the acid treatment, I use his dowel and emery method to clean things up. In the end, some know what works better because they've either failed or succeeded trying to come up with better methods. And some don't because they haven't. Rock on cedarshark and drf255.
 
Uh, I really didnt mean to shake a bees nest here guys, but I do appreciate all the responses from all camps.

Anyway was just texted a pic of some muriatic acid from a friend who is much more experienced than I at this stuff.....it was a bottle of Sunnyside brand muriatic acid. Label says 31.45% HCl....that seems crazy high. Like, 10-12 molar. Wtf?

This guy also had a tiny pinhole in the nikasil turn into a much larger pit in a few seconds.....precisely what I'd like to avoid at all costs....
 
Be aware that you can go through the plating with sandpaper as well. You can also make the bore slightly out of round.

Acid isn't that bad to use. The aluminum neutralizes it. A bit in a port won't do a thing. The key is not to allow it to hit any aluminum that can be eaten away under the plating, like in an area of a small chip or port edge. If you have a significant chip above the intake port, you're looking at replacing the jug anyway.

If you apply nice and easy till all the foaming stops, than neutralize, you should be good.

When you start seeing green on the Qtip, the acids beginning to eat into the nikasil a bit, it's time to stop.

Again, it's your saw, so do what makes you feel comfortable. Acid is just not as perilous as some make it out to be. It's a very useful tool that has it's place.
 
Can you post pics of the progress of cleaning up ur jug? After looking at pic's again you do have lots to clean off. Ur best bet os acid on that jug you will thin out the plating or wear through it were the aluminum is not melted on. If it looks like it is getting a polished look on the plating or scuff marks then ur removing plating from the cylinder wall. Just my opinion
 
Can you post pics of the progress of cleaning up ur jug? After looking at pic's again you do have lots to clean off. Ur best bet os acid on that jug you will thin out the plating or wear through it were the aluminum is not melted on. If it looks like it is getting a polished look on the plating or scuff marks then ur removing plating from the cylinder wall. Just my opinion

I've read this several times and still don't understand what you're trying to say. Acid is my best bet but I'll wear thru the plating where there is no transfer? Obviously I can't keep the acid only on the transfer no matter how selective I am with applying it.....

Wednesday morning is my Friday night. Prob won't have a chance to mess w the jug until then.
 
Use sand paper on that. It's not that bad and will probably be just as quick as acid. I lost a 046 jug with acid and I've quit using it since then.
 
Just use it on the bore of ur cylinder where your piston and rings travel. Thats where your plating is and the acid wont hurt the plating if you swab it on. Sometimes less is more. If ur plating is scored away in the bore then the acid will let you know. Once you have chips or nicks in the plating it will continue to keep happening with a new piston and ring. Some guys on this site Would take that jug and clean it up if its not good they my have it plated again or replace it. You dont want to put a half azz jug back on with a good piston and ring for a catastrophic failure that could result in tearing up lower end bearing or con rod bearing surface from chips of plating coming off ur jug
 
Uh, I really didnt mean to shake a bees nest here guys, but I do appreciate all the responses from all camps.
Most threads on this site and of this nature always seem to spawn multiple side convos within the thread. You haven't shaken anything up. It's all good. Just need to decipher who is talking to who most times. :)

Decided to drill a hole in the cylinder, soak it in acid overnight and buy an ax.
Excellent idea. How'd that work out for you? I'm guessing your transfer is gone now, huh?:lol:
 
Transfers gone, cylinders gone, used the ax to destroy the bottom end, burned down all the trees on the property and called the gas company.

Woke up semi hungover to a slew of house/job/wife/puppy related problems, sorry for the sarcasm (sorry I'm not sorry, that is)

In all seriousness I'm gonna try hand sanding first and see how slow the going really is. Take it baby steps from there. Thanks for all the advice.
 
Transfers gone, cylinders gone, used the ax to destroy the bottom end, burned down all the trees on the property and called the gas company.

Woke up semi hungover to a slew of house/job/wife/puppy related problems, sorry for the sarcasm (sorry I'm not sorry, that is)

In all seriousness I'm gonna try hand sanding first and see how slow the going really is. Take it baby steps from there. Thanks for all the advice.
Works for keep us posted on progress
 
lets put another fly in the ointment.
not sure of this but its my understanding that scoring from too lean a mix results mainly in transfer/scoring on the exhaust side. your cylinder and piston are scored/transferred for the full circumference. what say those with more experience?
 
lets put another fly in the ointment.
not sure of this but its my understanding that scoring from too lean a mix results mainly in transfer/scoring on the exhaust side. your cylinder and piston are scored/transferred for the full circumference. what say those with more experience?

While you're correct, the vast majority of the transfer is on the exhaust side
 
Paul, we as a group have sufficiently confused you to the point of desperation. You have taken the time to break the saw down and now cannot seem to come to a conclusion as to which way to proceed. If you are waiting on a consensus from the forum, it won't happen. It's the nature of the beast. Cleaning that cylinder can be done both ways, acidized or done mechanically(w/ abrasives). Both methods work and involve varying degrees of time involved. If you are worried that acid will result in "potholes from pinholes", dont use it. Get a couple sheets of wet/dry sandpaper, a sink full of warm water and sand until your fingers are prunes. If you had spent the time sanding rather than "second guessing" the help and opinions you have received, your cylinder would be cleaned and ready to install.
 
Paul, we as a group have sufficiently confused you to the point of desperation. You have taken the time to break the saw down and now cannot seem to come to a conclusion as to which way to proceed. If you are waiting on a consensus from the forum, it won't happen. It's the nature of the beast. Cleaning that cylinder can be done both ways, acidized or done mechanically(w/ abrasives). Both methods work and involve varying degrees of time involved. If you are worried that acid will result in "potholes from pinholes", dont use it. Get a couple sheets of wet/dry sandpaper, a sink full of warm water and sand until your fingers are prunes. If you had spent the time sanding rather than "second guessing" the help and opinions you have received, your cylinder would be cleaned and ready to install.

I completely agree w the hand sanding option and that was my plan from.minute one. I've overplayed the drama card, I'm not nearly as exasperated as Ive led y'all to believe. When this many people have the same two opinions chances are they're both right (and both wrong) to a point. I haven't had the time to take the project any further anyway so no harm done, besides which I don't have the replacement parts yet (just ordered em yesterday)
 
Uh, I really didnt mean to shake a bees nest here guys, but I do appreciate all the responses from all camps.

Anyway was just texted a pic of some muriatic acid from a friend who is much more experienced than I at this stuff.....it was a bottle of Sunnyside brand muriatic acid. Label says 31.45% HCl....that seems crazy high. Like, 10-12 molar. Wtf?

This guy also had a tiny pinhole in the nikasil turn into a much larger pit in a few seconds.....precisely what I'd like to avoid at all costs....

37% is 12 molar.

That is 10 molar, strong for muriatic acid which should 6 molar.

I like using the concentrated/37%/12 molar, it works faster.
 
Try small amounts of acid applied with the long wooden q-tips. Alternate with hand sanding with wet/dry (start out with 220, 150 if transfer is real thick) and detergent solution. Move on to 400 grit then scotchbrite when you think the aluminum is gone.

If there are holes/scores in the nikasil already, that the acid finds, I'd probably trash the jug anyway, depending on size/location

The nikasil itself is nearly impervious to hydrochloric acid , aluminum is not.(oxidation-reduction chemistry)
 

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