Bradley
ArboristSite Operative
How many of you guys are splicing your own lines? What are you splicing? What kind of results are you having? I've been splicing double braid lately with mixed results. Any tips?
Splicing?
- Thread starter Bradley
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Kevin
Addicted to ArboristSite
I can splice three strand but I just ordered a splice kit and a video for splicing 16 strand.
treepreacher
ArboristSite Lurker
What do you mean by mixed results? Are you turning out splices that fail or just look a little rough?
DDM
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hmmm I honestly dont think i'd want to attempt splicing on my life line. but thats just me.
Nickrosis
Manned by Boderators
I climb on split tails that I make, and I'll put an eye in the end of my Hi-Vee climbing line this weekend. Hollow braid is very easy to splice - almost too easy. Double braid, on the other hand, I have not learned how to splice, but about 5 people at my school can splice it in their sleep.
How do I feel climbing on them? Very safe. Especially after Yale told me that my split tail of XTC Spearmint didn't even break after they put 5100 lbs. on it. It slid off of their machine before they could get to break. The engineer said it would probably have made it to 5800 lbs. based on his experience. That split tail I hadn't even finished - it wasn't lockstitched or whipped. I would never climb on one if it hadn't been.
When I got the split tail back, it was beat up on the end from the machine, but I could feel lumps inside of the outer coat. I knew the strands had broken, but I wanted to test it. I tossed the eye around something that wouldn't move and pulled with all my might, but it didn't budge. When I gingerly held it in my hand, I was able to wiggle the bury out with any trouble, and I saw that every strand had broken inside - it was the cover wrapping around the bury that held it in place (Chinese finger-cuff effect). With whipping, I doubt I could have done that though.
Nickrosis
How do I feel climbing on them? Very safe. Especially after Yale told me that my split tail of XTC Spearmint didn't even break after they put 5100 lbs. on it. It slid off of their machine before they could get to break. The engineer said it would probably have made it to 5800 lbs. based on his experience. That split tail I hadn't even finished - it wasn't lockstitched or whipped. I would never climb on one if it hadn't been.
When I got the split tail back, it was beat up on the end from the machine, but I could feel lumps inside of the outer coat. I knew the strands had broken, but I wanted to test it. I tossed the eye around something that wouldn't move and pulled with all my might, but it didn't budge. When I gingerly held it in my hand, I was able to wiggle the bury out with any trouble, and I saw that every strand had broken inside - it was the cover wrapping around the bury that held it in place (Chinese finger-cuff effect). With whipping, I doubt I could have done that though.
Nickrosis
jsirbasku
ArboristSite Member
Ive been splicing for a little while now. I will say that a couple years back i bought a spliced split tail from sherril,because i did not know the physics of the splice (exactly how they are made) i was not comfortable using it. When i bought Brion toss's video and started doing my own splices i now know that a splice is very strong and fully trust putting my life on my own splices everyday. My climbing line(16 stand) is spliced on both ends and i also spliced the snaps into both ends of my lanyard. I just started doing hollow braid, and Nickrosis is right, it very, very simple. Once you learn how to do it you will become very comfortable with splicing, and once you climb with splices you will not ever want to settle for less. The only knot(hitch) in my primary climbing system is the actual friction hitch. I believe i posted a pic before but here it is again. I climb with a split tail made from hollow braid normally and my lanyard is a MT made with ultra tech. Now i just need to master splicing double braid ropes and I will be happy
Soon I will order a bulk amount of ultra tech and start splicing that too. Ultra tech is a double braid but the actual splice is a core splice. Last week i did some internet research on splicing various ropes, there are a lot of sites with instructions on how to splice. I printed some out and will keep them in a 3 ring binder for future reference. Splice are the only way to go!!!
Soon I will order a bulk amount of ultra tech and start splicing that too. Ultra tech is a double braid but the actual splice is a core splice. Last week i did some internet research on splicing various ropes, there are a lot of sites with instructions on how to splice. I printed some out and will keep them in a 3 ring binder for future reference. Splice are the only way to go!!!
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
There is some concern about using spliced ropes, especially ones that have been spliced by an unknown person. If splices are considered very efficient knots, I think that some of the reluctance may go away.
If a knot were to reduce the effeciency of a rope by, say, 30%, a splice in the same rope may only reduce the effeciency by 10%. [Before the whole discussion veers off into a mathematical discussion, realize that I'm just grabbing numbers for discussion sake.] Now. lets say that the splice isn't quite up to snuff and a few percentage points of efficiency are lost. I think that we'd find that a splice would still be more efficient than a knot. A splice would have to be made really poorly or not stitched to drop down so low to be a major concern.
Lately, I've started to do my own splicing. Generally, if I need splicing done, I have Sean Gere or Stanley Longstaff do them up for me at a tradeshow. Chad Brey has done some splices for me too. I've got a new climbing rope so I want to have eyes in it before I start to climb.
Tree Climbing Team-USA and Fresco Arborist Supplies have contracted with Yale to make a rope called XTC-USA. The rope has a red stripe and then, alternating four pics of white and four of blue. Looks really sharp! If anyone is interested, write to me off line.
Tom
If a knot were to reduce the effeciency of a rope by, say, 30%, a splice in the same rope may only reduce the effeciency by 10%. [Before the whole discussion veers off into a mathematical discussion, realize that I'm just grabbing numbers for discussion sake.] Now. lets say that the splice isn't quite up to snuff and a few percentage points of efficiency are lost. I think that we'd find that a splice would still be more efficient than a knot. A splice would have to be made really poorly or not stitched to drop down so low to be a major concern.
Lately, I've started to do my own splicing. Generally, if I need splicing done, I have Sean Gere or Stanley Longstaff do them up for me at a tradeshow. Chad Brey has done some splices for me too. I've got a new climbing rope so I want to have eyes in it before I start to climb.
Tree Climbing Team-USA and Fresco Arborist Supplies have contracted with Yale to make a rope called XTC-USA. The rope has a red stripe and then, alternating four pics of white and four of blue. Looks really sharp! If anyone is interested, write to me off line.
Tom
Nickrosis
Manned by Boderators
John, have you tried making the eye larger so that you can girth hitch it to the carabiner?
Also, I think the best source of information, when it comes to splicing, is a person who has a lot of experience with rope and knots. People can have different theories for the number of picks and how much to bury, but someone like Stanley Longstaff is able to take his years and years of experience and apply it to the arborist industry.
Brion Toss has done a terrific job with his wands and videos, and I would rather rely on him than on a website. If you have questions, he does have a forum that you can check out at www.briontoss.com (it's not a green industry). Rope manufacturers are great sources as well.
Nickrosis
Also, I think the best source of information, when it comes to splicing, is a person who has a lot of experience with rope and knots. People can have different theories for the number of picks and how much to bury, but someone like Stanley Longstaff is able to take his years and years of experience and apply it to the arborist industry.
Brion Toss has done a terrific job with his wands and videos, and I would rather rely on him than on a website. If you have questions, he does have a forum that you can check out at www.briontoss.com (it's not a green industry). Rope manufacturers are great sources as well.
Nickrosis
treepreacher
ArboristSite Lurker
When I first started splicing I was afraid to trust my life (or my ground crews) on them. To give me confidence I've tested them by splicing an eye on a short length of rope and tying a bowline to the other end,anchoring to a tree on the back of my property and slowly maxing out the rope. I've yet to have a splice fail. Even early on when my splices were rough,they were stronger than a bowline. (like Tom said)
Are there any concerns that:
In a splice, the wear is always at the same point; day after day; especially without a thimble to spread it out?
and
If you have a splice that is in to the 90+% strength; and you girth hitch it to a 'biner; what would it's strength be then?
In a splice, the wear is always at the same point; day after day; especially without a thimble to spread it out?
and
If you have a splice that is in to the 90+% strength; and you girth hitch it to a 'biner; what would it's strength be then?
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
My deadeye splices are as tight as possible then dipped in rubberising. No more sideloading of the 'biners.
I think the practice of spliced eys is safer the the old practice of a permanent bo'lin on a clip (or vice the verse). Inspection is always the key.
Does anyone cut an end down and resplice?
I think the practice of spliced eys is safer the the old practice of a permanent bo'lin on a clip (or vice the verse). Inspection is always the key.
Does anyone cut an end down and resplice?
Kneejerk Bombas
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I have cut a rope down and respliced and found it was quite a bit harder to make the splice in used rope.
I perfer to buy a new rope. New ropes are very satisfiying, kinda like a new pair of underwear, even if you don't really need 'em, you get 'em anyway.
I perfer to buy a new rope. New ropes are very satisfiying, kinda like a new pair of underwear, even if you don't really need 'em, you get 'em anyway.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
New underwear? I just wear my Dads when the get too streached out for him:blob6:.
Well...........................................
This pip squeak is glad everyone is bigger than him now!
This pip squeak is glad everyone is bigger than him now!
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
No no your a lightweight now. Drop a few more pounds and we can get you into the featherweight class.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sergio,
The rope fibers are exactly the same as any XTC. We negotieated with Yale to weave 9,600 feet of the rope in our, Tree Climbing Team-USA colors. Could be the same as England, France and a number of other countries too
Tom
The rope fibers are exactly the same as any XTC. We negotieated with Yale to weave 9,600 feet of the rope in our, Tree Climbing Team-USA colors. Could be the same as England, France and a number of other countries too
Tom
Bradley
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks for the replys everyone! I can splice three strand no problem as well as hollow braid. The double braid splices in stuff like Stable Braid look a little rough but they're getting better. Even the rough ones though will not pull apart between my Jeep and a tree. Usually the knot will break. I just like them to look a little neater. I haven't tried 16 strand yet but will soon.
X-man
ArboristSite Lurker
Yale has a certified splicer program for double braid. It cost me $45 dollars a few years ago. They send you a rope and you splice it to their specifications. You send it back, and they test it by breaking it. Usually you get back the results, my splices broke above the avg. line strength. Yale also sends instructions on how to whip-lock your splices, which adds strength and a nice finished look!
I learned splicing with Brion Toss' video/wand and a few calls to Stanley Longstaff(Stanley's # is in the video). Never use your first few splices or anything that didn't bury right. A vise will make things easier, and you need to do alot of milking/massaging to loosen up the rope fibers. Brion's video covers like nine splices! The 16 strand splice is the hardest to master in my opinion and I'm not sure if Yale certifies it. New England and Samson are the easiest 16 strands to splice in that order. Yale 16 strand is a little more difficult due to the tighter weave of it's strands and it requires a special "mini" wand to make it easy. A 16 strand splice takes me around 45 minutes to complete from layout to stitching, where I can bust out a double braid in half that time!
I do not believe in knots and only use a few hitches, to maintain the strength in my systems, not to mention how streamline splices are! And there's nothing like being able to custom up whatever you need and how long/short you want/need the eye splices! It saves alot of money too!
I learned splicing with Brion Toss' video/wand and a few calls to Stanley Longstaff(Stanley's # is in the video). Never use your first few splices or anything that didn't bury right. A vise will make things easier, and you need to do alot of milking/massaging to loosen up the rope fibers. Brion's video covers like nine splices! The 16 strand splice is the hardest to master in my opinion and I'm not sure if Yale certifies it. New England and Samson are the easiest 16 strands to splice in that order. Yale 16 strand is a little more difficult due to the tighter weave of it's strands and it requires a special "mini" wand to make it easy. A 16 strand splice takes me around 45 minutes to complete from layout to stitching, where I can bust out a double braid in half that time!
I do not believe in knots and only use a few hitches, to maintain the strength in my systems, not to mention how streamline splices are! And there's nothing like being able to custom up whatever you need and how long/short you want/need the eye splices! It saves alot of money too!
