460 and 660 work saws double build

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
TIG set up, 1/16 gold band electrode, 65 amps pulsed with a gas lens.

On a work saw, I'm just softening the edges in the carb venturi, gaining only 1mm but still it's about 7-8% improvement in flow.
 
TIG set up, 1/16 gold band electrode, 65 amps pulsed with a gas lens.

On a work saw, I'm just softening the edges in the carb venturi, gaining only 1mm but still it's about 7-8% improvement in flow.

Right on... I've never tried orange band, but I hear good things.

Got'cha on the venturi thing... Just improving flow. Does that help in the saw not over-running the carb, without having to switch to a bigger carb?
 
Have not tried orange either. I find the gold and blue work well pretty much do anything, they don't ball as nice for aluminium, but carry curent well.

With the carb I'm just trying to preserve charge density at higher RPM, less roll off at the top side of the powerband.

If it was a racer then the carb would look a lot different or look a lot more like an HT than a WJ.
 
All back together, compression is about 25 psi over stock, Just need to go cut a log to test it and get some video.
 
175psi? I got that with mine and the squish is at .022-3" with no popup. Course, like you, I didn't raise the exhaust at all.
 
TW, tig questions.

Gold band tungsten works better on steel/SS than red band? I assume you are using 309 SS filler rod?

I've been using 1/16 red band @40amp pulsed. I've been using mild steel sheet metal to make baffle and things. Thanks

edit: miller SW200 is what I got.
 
Last edited:
I try to stay away from having radioactive crap about if possible, cancer has been to our house once and had a welder buddy lose a nut over cancer, makes you think.

I like to go a little higher with the amps and then work mid point on the peddal so likely welding closer to 25 amps. but having 60 amps allows for getting things hot quick when needed puting less total heat in.

Using 308 filler and 22 ga stainless sheet for the pieces.

Using a Lincoln precision Tig 185, so pretty simmilar machienes.

This saw has not had a tank of gas through it yet so maybe the compression will come up a bit as the rings seat.
 
Last edited:
Like so many things there is no magical electrode that fixes all welding problems. I tried a few and other than pure tungsten differences were subtil if even noticable at all. On aluminium there were some differences in how the electrode balls and then that effects the weld a bit.

Come to think of it I may have tried orange, thats ceriated right? They worked fine for steel, not so much for aluminium had the electrode splinter under heavy current.
 
Last edited:
Here is a video.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff49N048Oqo

It's cutting not bad, though t would get beat by a little against my 066BB, but thats an older 066 with more compression 6 extra CCs, a more radical carb and muffler (unpleasently loud). It's also well broken in. So this saw should not be expected to catch it.
 
Like so many things there is no magical electrode that fixes all welding problems. I tried a few and other than pure tungsten differences were subtil if even noticable at all. On aluminium there were some differences in how the electrode balls and then that effects the weld a bit.

Come to think of it I may have tried orange, thats ceriated right? They worked fine for steel, not so much for aluminium had the electrode splinter under heavy current.

Pure Tungsten (Color Code: Green)

Pure tungsten electrodes (AWS classification EWP) contain 99.50 percent tungsten, have the highest consumption rate of all electrodes, and typically are less expensive than their alloyed counterparts.

These electrodes form a clean, balled tip when heated and provide great arc stability for AC welding with a balanced wave. Pure tungsten also provides good arc stability for AC sine wave welding, especially on aluminum and magnesium. It is not typically used for DC welding because it does not provide the strong arc starts associated with thoriated or ceriated electrodes.

Thoriated (Color Code: Red)

Thoriated tungsten electrodes (AWS classification EWTh-2) contain a minimum of 97.30 percent tungsten and 1.70 to 2.20 percent thorium and are called 2 percent thoriated. They are the most commonly used electrodes today and are preferred for their longevity and ease of use. Thorium increases the electron emission qualities of the electrode, which improves arc starts and allows for a higher current-carrying capacity. This electrode operates far below its melting temperature, which results in a considerably lower rate of consumption and eliminates arc wandering for greater stability. Compared with other electrodes, thoriated electrodes deposit less tungsten into the weld puddle, so they cause less weld contamination.

These electrodes are used mainly for specialty AC welding (such as thin-gauge aluminum and material less than 0.060 inch) and DC welding, either electrode negative or straight polarity, on carbon steel, stainless steel, nickel, and titanium.

During manufacturing, thorium is evenly dispersed throughout the electrode, which helps the tungsten maintain its sharpened edge—the ideal electrode shape for welding thin steel—after grinding. Note: Thorium is radioactive; therefore, you must always follow the manufacturer's warnings, instructions, and the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for its use.

Ceriated (Color Code: Orange)

Ceriated tungsten electrodes (AWS classification EWCe-2) contain a minimum of 97.30 percent tungsten and 1.80 to 2.20 percent cerium and are referred to as 2 percent ceriated. These electrodes perform best in DC welding at low current settings but can be used proficiently in AC processes. With its excellent arc starts at low amperages, ceriated tungsten has become popular in such applications as orbital tube and pipe fabricating, thin sheet metal work, and jobs involving small and delicate parts. Like thorium, it is best used to weld carbon steel, stainless steel, nickel alloys, and titanium, and in some cases it can replace 2 percent thoriated electrodes. Ceriated tungsten has slightly different electrical characteristics than thorium, but most welders can't tell the difference.

Using ceriated electrodes at higher amperages is not recommended because higher amperages cause the oxides to migrate quickly to the heat at the tip, removing the oxide content and nullifying its process benefits.

Lanthanated (Color Code: Gold)

Lanthanated tungsten electrodes (AWS classification EWLa-1.5) contain a minimum of 97.80 percent tungsten and 1.30 percent to 1.70 percent lanthanum, or lanthana, and are known as 1.5 percent lanthanated. These electrodes have excellent arc starting, a low

burnoff rate, good arc stability, and excellent reignition characteristics—many of the same advantages as ceriated electrodes. Lanthanated electrodes also share the conductivity characteristics of 2 percent thoriated tungsten. In some cases, 1.5 percent lanthanated can replace 2 percent thoriated without having to make significant welding program changes.

Lanthanated tungsten electrodes are ideal if you want to optimize your welding capabilities. They work well on AC or DC electrode negative with a pointed end, or they can be balled for use with AC sine wave power sources. Lanthanated tungsten maintains a sharpened point well, which is an advantage for welding steel and stainless steel on DC or AC from square wave power sources.

Unlike thoriated tungsten, these electrodes are suitable for AC welding and, like ceriated electrodes, allow the arc to be started and maintained at lower voltages. Compared with pure tungsten, the addition of 1.5 percent lanthana increases the maximum current-carrying capacity by approximately 50 percent for a given electrode size.

Zirconiated (Color Code: Brown)

Zirconiated tungsten electrodes (AWS classification EWZr-1) contain a minimum of 99.10 percent tungsten and 0.15 to 0.40 percent zirconium. A zirconiated tungsten electrode produces an extremely stable arc and resists tungsten spitting. It is ideal for AC welding because it retains a balled tip and has a high resistance to contamination. Its current-carrying capability is equal to or greater than that of thoriated tungsten. Under no circumstances is zirconiated recommended for DC welding.

Rare Earth (Color Code: Gray)

Rare-earth tungsten electrodes (AWS classification EWG) contain unspecified additives of rare-earth oxides or hybrid combinations of different oxides, but manufacturers are required to identify each additive and its percentage on the package. Depending on the additives, desired results can include a stable arc in both AC and DC processes, greater longevity than thoriated tungsten, the ability to use a smaller-diameter electrode for the same job, use of a higher current for a similar-sized electrode, and less tungsten spitting.

Tungsten Preparation — Balled, Pointed, or Truncated?

After selecting a type of electrode, the next step is to select an end preparation. The three choices are balled, pointed, and truncated.
 
Lot of electrode info. Interesting lots of things in there are in line with what I found just messing about.

I'd bet though there would be a lot of pro TIG welders that could not tell the difference if you just changed the paint color on their electrodes.

Herd that you need to watch buying cheap china brand electrodes, they just take what ever they have cheap and dip them in whatever coloured paint and pocket the profit.

Did a couple last tweaks on the 660 and leaned it a little, nearly dead even with my 066bb now.

Here is three cuts timmed off the camera it was 4.75 once uploaded 4.90, It's 0f outside and camera is not liking it.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae_ma0ywC08
 
Lot of electrode info. Interesting lots of things in there are in line with what I found just messing about.

I'd bet though there would be a lot of pro TIG welders that could not tell the difference if you just changed the paint color on their electrodes.

Herd that you need to watch buying cheap china brand electrodes, they just take what ever they have cheap and dip them in whatever coloured paint and pocket the profit.

Did a couple last tweaks on the 660 and leaned it a little, nearly dead even with my 066bb now.

Here is three cuts timmed off the camera it was 4.75 once uploaded 4.90, It's 0f outside and camera is not liking it.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae_ma0ywC08

Brian... I usually use red band for it all, and sometimes green band for aluminum. I think from now on, I'll use gold band for all steels, and brown for aluminum.

Great video! That saw is flat ripping!:clap:
 
Thanks, just going to clean the saw off, drain it and put it back in the box to head south. You'd want to have you're chain sharp if you run into this one at a GTG.

Brown worked well for me on aluminium, also have some black that worked well too.

Lanthinated seem good on aluminium, they don't ball as nice though, but if you ball it just a little less on DC+ it leaves a nice hemi shaped point and that seems to give very focused heat.
 
Thanks, just going to clean the saw off, drain it and put it back in the box to head south. You'd want to have you're chain sharp if you run into this one at a GTG.

QUOTE]


:yourock: :cheers: Maybe someday those boys in OHIO will invite me down to play. The 460 is GREAT so far. I have buried this in 40 inch Red oak and it rips. I have also paraded it to some tree service friends that are left with a jaw wide open:jawdrop: . Tree Service "Big smiles and shaking the saw saying now that is a great power to weight saw"(kind like kid getting his first bike smile). I think the ability to hold the rpms in the cut is what I like the best. Not sure how to describe it, but you would see if ya could run it. Hopefully I can figure out the camera thing and post some video againist some 460, 660 and 395 stockers. Chain on it right now is a bit grabby but I will work on that. I need to spend some more time with the saw and get a feel for that powerband. Might have to travel to the Deep swamps on NC and see how well Larry Dennis can sharpen a chain on that 440.

Carlyle
 
Good Stuff.

You best pick Larry's brains on sharpening chain for a bit before you pick a race with that 440 of his though.

660 is boxed up with shipping papers filled out, should be on it's way by noon.

You may want to track down a 9 or 10 tooth gear and trim the heal of a bar just for play in smaller wood.
 
Last edited:
Fantastic thread Timberwolf! Thanks for the education.

I am awed by the accuracy of your methodology for modeling outcomes of your mods.

:rocker: You Rock!
 
Took base gasket out and turned base down 0.028, final squish should be about .022.

Fired the saw up last night, runs well, but not real high RPM 14,200 or so, but it's a new saw so may loosen up a little yet. Might make some cuts tonight, don't know if I will be able to get video up, my internet server is kicking me off when trying to upload bigger files.

Your not scared of a rod letting go at over 14000 rpm?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top