The Cord: Vox Clamintus en Desierto

[logbutcher]

The school motto is apt here. This is it. Please, NO replies. I am done, finished, terminado.

So, for all you "thinkers" diddling online for supposed definitions of a cord, here 'tis. The universal in North America, at least with people who work the woodlands professionally for biomass, sawlogs, pulp, yeh even firewood. In harvests does anyone =think that a logger will have the time, energy or care about mass (NOT volume )? Mileage may vary, and according to some posts here, does vary for firewood.

1 CORD = a measure of stacked wood 4' X 4' X 8' = 128 cubic feet NO MATTER HOW STACKED.

Now boys and girls, MASS is another matter. Within that 4x4x8 pile there can be 40 cu ft of solid wood, or 180 cu ft of solid wood. That's the MASS of wood. It's not volume. Thimk, thimk: there could be 3-4 big logs 6' DBH with little mass and plenty of air in that pile. Or, thin sticks with no air. It is all a cord.

Whew. Now back to the real world.

You won't have the cord to kick around anymore....( R.M. Nixon)

 

[Mr Goodwrench]

cord wood

Thanks for the info logbutcher, around here we measure firewood by the truckload ( dont have time to stack it 4x4x8 just for a measure and then tear it down an d restack in the woodshed) I burn 14-16 full size pickup bed loads per year, thats all that is important to me.

 

[Highbeam]

Then there's long beds, short beds, rail high, sideboards, heaping truckloads, etc.

The most honest, though illegal, wood sellers we have locally are the ones that sell by the "truckload". Basicly, this here heap of wood for X dollars take it or leave it. Seems that the buyer can't argue the quantity when it is dumped if it was sold as a truckload. So long as everyone was in agreement before the truckload was dumped. The guys selling by the cord are very likely to be crooks whether they know it or not since they are using an actual measurement yet they have no intention of ever making that measurement.

 

[blades]

If I have 9 rows 20 ft long 5ft high and varying in width between 12-20", I am good to go for the season with some left over as seed for the next season.

 

[Ductape]

I'm no firewood dealer by any stretch of the imagination...... but i have sold a cord here or there, either to family/friends or word of mouth. Last spring i sold some wood to a guy who argued up and down with me (after i delivered his wood) that i should be delivering him closer to 150 cu/ft because there was airspace within the stacked wood.

Should he ever call me again....... he'll get " NO SOUP FOR YOU !!" :monkey:

 

[Dalmatian90]

Now that you've shouted at all of us...

Within that 4x4x8 pile there can be 40 cu ft of solid wood, or 180 cu ft of solid wood

Would please explain what alternative universe you live in that 180 cubic feet of solid wood will fit in a space that is 4' x 4' x 8' that is, by definition, 128 cubic feet of volume?

Oh, and seeing you're from Maine in your profile:

A "cord" is a unit of measure of wood products 4 feet
wide, 4 feet high, and 8 feet long, or its equivalent,
containing 128 cubic feet when the wood is ranked and
well stowed. Any voids that will accommodate a stick,
log or bolt of average dimensions to those in the pile
shall be deducted from the measured volume (MFS
Rules Chapter 20 Definition).

http://www.maine.gov/doc/mfs/fpm/forms/wdprocinstruct.pdf

That's the Maine Forest Service's definition of a cord. In their directions for a report to be filled out by:

This includes, but is not limited to: Pulp & Paper Mills, Sawmills, Wood-to-Energy Facilities, all Custom Sawmills, and Portable Sawmills. In addition, any firm or individual, such as loggers, harvesters, and brokers, who import or export forest products must also report.

I guess they don't know much about being professionals working in the woods though.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I am done, finished, terminado.

Well, I'm glad to hear that.

You are also wrong.

Still.


And thanks for clearing up that you're not among the thinkers, too. I mean, it was obvious, but it's nice to have you come right out and say it.

 

[Marc]

Now boys and girls, MASS is another matter. Within that 4x4x8 pile there can be 40 cu ft of solid wood, or 180 cu ft of solid wood. That's the MASS of wood. It's not volume.

No, that's still volume. Cubic feet will always be a unit of volume, no matter what you're measuring.

Now were you to put that wood on a balance, you could measure its mass in units of maybe pounds-mass (lbm) or kilograms (kg) if you're partial to SI. You could even convert into Planck-mass (mP) if you're a real purist. That is what mass is.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

No, that's still volume. Cubic feet will always be a unit of volume, no matter what you're measuring.

Now were you to put that wood on a balance, you could measure its mass in units of maybe pounds-mass (lbm) or kilograms (kg) if you're partial to SI. You could even convert into Planck-mass (mP) if you're a real purist. That is what mass is.

Ah, but how much of that is wood, and how much is moisture?





That's why we have the imperfect measurement known as the cord. It's workable.


As is truckload, trailerload, etc.


What matters with any unit of measurement is that it is well defined, and all are agreed on the definition.

 

[Marc]

Ah, but how much of that is wood, and how much is moisture?





That's why we have the imperfect measurement known as the cord. It's workable.


As is truckload, trailerload, etc.


What matters with any unit of measurement is that it is well defined, and all are agreed on the definition.

Well, if we had sophisticated and cheap 3D scanners, we could measure the volume of just the pieces of cordwood as it dropped off a loading conveyor or something along those lines and then sell it strictly by wood volume. Of course people would then find something else to biatch about like the amount of bark or something.

 

[dingeryote]

OK.

So we all switch over to Mass as a unit of measure for firewood.

That's all good and fine for retail trade and all but it is pointless and moot.

Making a cold hard science out of burning wood just sucks the fun,lore, and romance outta the matter and should be a crime.

It's really a simple thing.
If ya don't like the looks of the volume bieng delivered by the dealer, tell him to get lost or haggle with the price.

How much to cut for the next season?
Simple. As much as ya can. Because as soon as you decide ya have enough, a colder and longer than usual winter will set in, and your Mom/sister/cousin/neighbor/ buddy will ask if you can spare a cord.
Just put down the frickin slide rule and get busy cuttin' and don't worry about it.

How much wood do you have?
Simple. Stack all you can cut in a manner that you will always have room for more. Screw dimensions or measuring it. As soon as you figure you have enough to hold you over and some to sell, you'll run into folks that want you to measure it out and you'll either be a crook, or give 'em too much and not make any $$$. Worse is if ya know you have 28 Cords tightly stacked, all it takes is 4-5 Beers at the local pub and comparing woodpiles, and then EVERYBODY knows ya got too much wood and will come begging.

There's only two REAL measurements.
"Maybe enough", and "Almost out".

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[laser]

I saw some maple kiln dried wood cut to something that looked like dowels that was debarked...only .50 per log...but they didn't tell you how big the log was...opcorn:

Measuring wood is difficult. Outside of 3d scanners, and infrared moisture meters, and a scale, I'm not sure how you'd be "really" accurate. None of that is cost effective, either.

Even in a tightly stacked cord, where you can't wedge a twig in, there's air. How much? Good luck with that.

If those sawdust-logs ever get cheap enough to take over, that'll solve our problem.

 

[howellhandmade]

Guys, guys, guys, he said NO REPLIES. He even said "please." :monkey:

 

[TreePointer]

The school motto is apt here. This is it. Please, NO replies....

Why would you make such a request in an Internet discussion forum? You can talk to yourself (and whatever else with yourself) at plenty of other sites on the Internet.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

There's only two REAL measurements.
"Maybe enough", and "Almost out".

Hmmmm. Hard to argue with that!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Measuring wood is difficult. Outside of 3d scanners, and infrared moisture meters, and a scale, I'm not sure how you'd be "really" accurate. None of that is cost effective, either.

That's exactly right. The cord is workable, not perfect. It doesn't account for variables in wood shape and size, moisture content, or the price of tea in China.


But, it's good enough for firewood. It does leave the buyer and seller with some responsibility to understand how dry wood should be, and how to tell the difference.

 

[PA Plumber]

I just can't believe this has come up again.

Even more stunning........

I read this thread!?! Yikes!:jawdrop:







(I must say, it has been an interesting, if not intuitive read. On the other hand, there was just a tad bit of tuition floating around in the replies. So, in retrospect, it has been interesting and intuitive. Okay, what is a cord again!!??!!.):greenchainsaw:

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Okay, what is a cord again!!??!!.):greenchainsaw:

For the definitive answer, go here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1862819#post1862819

 

[Steve NW WI]

Dang quote button failed me: Dingeryote said "maybe enough or almost out" are the only measurements needed.

You forgot my standard answer: Some. It's the same answer you'll likely get if you ask me how many saws, guns, or bushels per acre I have. It's also a good measurement of how many beers I'll have on a Friday night. VERY handy unit of measure!

 

[dingeryote]

LOL!!!

"Some". I think I can see the utility of that.

"Running a bit short, and just need some".

It's more accurate than "Rick" or "Face cord".

"I'm sorry M'am, but this rick is a loose rick, not a compressed rick, so in fact it's half a face Cord, but I could add SOME, and charge you for a compressed Face cord". LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

GTFOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!

3D Imaging, and Mass meters aside of course.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote