Pretty cool selective logging tool...

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slowp said:
Notice the rutting. They'd have to shut it down and wait for the soil to dry out here. Bad, bad forwarder. :mad:
Click to expand...

I think that you'll find that the fowarder traveled the same route many times with the same demo logs , I seen a few more of there video's and did not notice it tearing up the woods that bad but they may have chosen better conditions .
What machines have you found that make least mess/rutting in your area ?

:cheers:
 
An 8-wheel drive is going to have good flotation, it's not going to make any more rut then a 4-wheeler followed by a 4-wheeler (ATV), It looks like the same tires/tire loading.

It's clear that they picked a soft spot to demonstrate it's traction.

I like the concept, other then is looks a little light for most uses.
 
dancan said:
I think that you'll find that the fowarder traveled the same route many times with the same demo logs , I seen a few more of there video's and did not notice it tearing up the woods that bad but they may have chosen better conditions .
What machines have you found that make least mess/rutting in your area ?

:cheers:
Click to expand...
.

.

. Helicopters .
. Skyline yarders
 
dancan said:
I think that you'll find that the fowarder traveled the same route many times with the same demo logs , I seen a few more of there video's and did not notice it tearing up the woods that bad but they may have chosen better conditions .
What machines have you found that make least mess/rutting in your area ?

:cheers:
Click to expand...

Yarders and helicopters.:) Oops and reading back through this I see that answer has been given.
 
ground based extraction means disturbance. Visible or not, more than 3 passes with any ground based machine will creat permanent compaction affecting site potential, wet or dry. So, depth of rut does not matter as long as the rutting is mitigated through proper closeout, and the % of the site with significant disturbance is kept to a minimum (hopefully under 6% of total acreage, including landings.) In woods infrastructure can be used for all later harvests, assuming the next harvest uses the same or similar technology, which as slowP will attest to, may or may not be the case.

Forwarders will outperfrom skidder productivity where extraction distances are greater than (depends on particular equipment here) 1/2 mile.

BTW, skidders have a lower psi than human foot....... but thats not exactly measured loaded with a big ol' drag.
 
see if this will work .http://www.payeur.com/produits/usages/P1030562.JPG . The pic wouldn,t paste up so here is a link .. What are these . I see them hooked up to the forwarder trailers and plumbed into the tractors hydraulics .. Pretty slick looking ...!!!. I still like the Forcat best .......Other than price , it doesn,t get any argument from me ..... These rubber tired jobs could be driven down the road tho ...
 
That's a smaller tractor , Kioti , it's been reinforced with a full roll cage and a heavy belly pan to stiffen the frame so you don't break the tractor under heavy flexing , usually a 3pt logging winch (Farmi,Norse,Tajfun etc) mounted in the back . They have made a small hydraulic push blade up front that flips up out of the way for tight woods , a loader and bucket up front works but can be harder to maneuver in the thick but any added weight at the front is an added bonus when winching .
A lot of smaller wood lot owners/operators around here work with this type of setup to some extent , you can pull a lot of wood out with an old 2 wheel drive tractor for not a lot of money but compact 4x4 is more versatile and let you get further into the woods and then the other possibilities open up ....moving snow,snow blower,forks,grapple on the forks or bucket for moving brush,bushhog or small flail mower , see it never stops .
Kinda like a swiss army knife .

:cheers:
 
hammerlogging said:
ground based extraction means disturbance. Visible or not, more than 3 passes with any ground based machine will creat permanent compaction affecting site potential, wet or dry. So, depth of rut does not matter as long as the rutting is mitigated through proper closeout, and the % of the site with significant disturbance is kept to a minimum (hopefully under 6% of total acreage, including landings.) In woods infrastructure can be used for all later harvests, assuming the next harvest uses the same or similar technology, which as slowP will attest to, may or may not be the case.

Forwarders will outperfrom skidder productivity where extraction distances are greater than (depends on particular equipment here) 1/2 mile.

BTW, skidders have a lower psi than human foot....... but thats not exactly measured loaded with a big ol' drag.
Click to expand...

I spent a Saturday at a seminar. Weyerhauser had some presentations on soil compaction. Strangely enough, their studies found that the trees planted in skid trails only had growth affected for one year. Then the tree roots grew beyond the compacted area and growth was comparable to the trees planted off skid trails. Maybe different soils than other places though.

We're supposed to require subsoiling on all skid trails. My concern is that in a thinning, the subsoiler, which is often a shovel, pops the roots of the leave trees. I talked to the professor who did the Weyco presentation and he thought the subsoiling was way out of date as fare as a BMP.

The concern here, with operating in mud, is that sediment will get in the creeks. So, if the tracks are rutting for 10 feet and are 6" deep or more, it is time to shut the machine down and go home.

That really puts a limit on the days when one can skid. July, August and September, probably with a few days in July and September being too wet. Add this restriction to any fire season restrictions, and you can see a timing problem.

We are lucky to have Pumice soils which drain and dry out quickly.
 
tramp bushler said:
see if this will work .http://www.payeur.com/produits/usages/P1030562.JPG . The pic wouldn,t paste up so here is a link .. What are these . I see them hooked up to the forwarder trailers and plumbed into the tractors hydraulics .. Pretty slick looking ...!!!. I still like the Forcat best .......Other than price , it doesn,t get any argument from me ..... These rubber tired jobs could be driven down the road tho ...
Click to expand...
My uncle had a massey fergusson tractor like those but bigger it had a full role cage. It was was used for skidding small jobs out.
It was a lot easier than moving a skidder he moved it with a f 800 ford. im not sure wich model it was though as its been abou 10 years since i was around it. id say it was about the same size as a 450 g john deere cat.
 
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slowp said:
I spent a Saturday at a seminar. Weyerhauser had some presentations on soil compaction. Strangely enough, their studies found that the trees planted in skid trails only had growth affected for one year. Then the tree roots grew beyond the compacted area and growth was comparable to the trees planted off skid trails. Maybe different soils than other places though.

We're supposed to require subsoiling on all skid trails. My concern is that in a thinning, the subsoiler, which is often a shovel, pops the roots of the leave trees. I talked to the professor who did the Weyco presentation and he thought the subsoiling was way out of date as fare as a BMP.

The concern here, with operating in mud, is that sediment will get in the creeks. So, if the tracks are rutting for 10 feet and are 6" deep or more, it is time to shut the machine down and go home.

That really puts a limit on the days when one can skid. July, August and September, probably with a few days in July and September being too wet. Add this restriction to any fire season restrictions, and you can see a timing problem.

We are lucky to have Pumice soils which drain and dry out quickly.
Click to expand...

I think ill keep logging here the weather gets bad her but usually you can still manage to work though. The only times we dont work is during spring break up and if we get a lot of rain in the fall. during the summer we can get a inch of rain in the afternoon and itll be dry the next morning.During the winter it freezes so from december till the end of march its good sailing. As far as soil compaction i think the frost takes care of that arond here. Ive been back on jobs i cut a few years ago and the trails all seem to be growing back shut.
 
Where are these made >> What are their price range ????
. The area where I live and work now has pretty flat , but wet ground . Most of the time I can only work on frozen ground here There are some tractors on Payeur's web site there are some of these with the front wheels the same size. or at least much larger than standard farm tractor tires ... Do you have any experience with these ... big tires wouldn,t fall into holes as easy . Are they heavy duty enough for small scale logging .......
.
. That Astor 8x8 forwarder looks real nice .....especially if they were available here !!!!!!!!! I would like to get one before they make them grow into something bigger than what I want or need !!
.
.
.http://www.payeur.com/produits/usages/P1030681.JPG...
 
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the tractor logging setups are more common up in NY and other flatter places. right of way setups are appropriate for logging, ROPS, FOPS. BUT, you pay a lot for the customizing for a machine that is not as good as a skidder. An older 548 with a swing boom grapple, thats a nice machine for what you need (I'd think)... or a real forwarder with a grapple saw. Unless you're moving a lot. But sonce forestry is ag., you can drive machinery between jobs if its not too far.
 

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