My aux oiler addition

[demographic]

Aside from the contaminants in the oil, surely the solid metal particles can be removed with a filter?

That's what's in a car engine and it works for them.

 

[BobL]

Aside from the contaminants in the oil, surely the solid metal particles can be removed with a filter?

That's what's in a car engine and it works for them.

Yep - thats correct. But they aren't the environmental problem children, the solid bits have already bee collected by oil filters anyway. The environmental problem are the metals that have dissolved into atoms or molecules no physical filter or even a magnet is going to take them out of the oil, they become like water and have to be chemically separated.

BTW it is possible to to do this, eg add a mix of warm HCl and nitric acid to the oil container and then shake for an hour. The metals will dissolve into the acid, then let the container stand for a day and the oil will rise to the top, now decant the oil. Now you have oil that is contaminated with small amounts of nitric and HCl, which can be removed by repeated washing and standing in water. Then you have to disposed of the the contaminated acid and water.

 

[Andrew96]

Typical machine way oil is 30 weight mineral oil with tackifiers added so it will cling to the ways. In other words, it's the same thing as bar oil, except they put a different label on the jug and triple the price ! ! !

But, try explaining that on a machinist's forum and you get shot down, just as you get shot down on AS if you confess to lubing your bar with used oil.

BobL makes some good points about the toxic aspects of used motor oil, but at this time there doesn't seem to be a lot of healthy alternatives for disposal. Fuel oil -- creates global warming and the toxins don't go away. Re-refining -- doesn't seem to be available in my area.

The economic argument for using quality bar oil doesn't add up, either. My milling bar cost $100, a pump costs $70. Yet despite using used oil whenver it is available, I still go through about 2 dozen gallons of store bought bar oil a year -- about $170 worth. In other words, I spend more on oil than on bars and pumps.

I consider myself a tree hugger, but the reality is that almost everything we humans do has an impact on the environment. The best we can hope for is to make less of an impact, and I think portable milling accomplishes that.

I've gone wild posting in hast after reading for so many years. I may have gone off the wall. Tree huggers get carried away here.
Last summer, while cutting a cherry up, on private property near a road, a young lady stopped and after some shouting...started to cry because I was 'hurting' the tree. I couldn't believe it. She called the police to stop me. Lots of drama that day. This past weekend while trying to cut a Xmas tree at a tree farm....I had the mirror smashed off my truck by a group of 'tree huggers' in the road at the farm blocking the exit (They were not smart enough to block the entrance). I was a just a little angry come monday being called a tree hugger. Sorry...... Respecting the environment..yes...tree hugger...not a chance....when does that season open?

It's illegal to dump any used oil, or cause it to get on the ground. Anywhere you buy oil..has to by law...take it back for recycling...they cannot refuse (though they do if you bring too much at one time). Too bad a process like that isn't available everywhere.
After reading so much around here about how people hate to use old oil on their bars...I decided NOT to mention it. I do though...I just don't use it anywhere near water, or when I'm on someones lawn and the property owner is 'helping'.
I am going to give the bar oil a go on my machine ways. Thanks for the trick.

 

[Fallguy1960]

Andrew do you have any dimensions on the hole spacing that you used for your depth of cut adjustments? Also do you have any pictures of how you attached to the power head end of the bar? If you were to do another what changes would you make? What you have built is very close to the design I have been rolling around in my head to build this spring. Thanks Rob

 

[mtngun]

Tree huggers get carried away here.
Last summer, while cutting a cherry up, on private property near a road, a young lady stopped and after some shouting...started to cry because I was 'hurting' the tree. I couldn't believe it. She called the police to stop me. Lots of drama that day. This past weekend while trying to cut a Xmas tree at a tree farm....I had the mirror smashed off my truck by a group of 'tree huggers' in the road at the farm blocking the exit (They were not smart enough to block the entrance).

That's pretty wild, I can understand why loggers don't get along with them. Sounds like city people ?

That reminds me of a story about one of my neighbors. He owns some vacation property on my mountain, and after his wife died, he remarried to a city girl. Well, they were having their property fenced to keep the cows out. As the workers were stringing barb wire through a forest, sometimes they would simply nail the barb wire to a handy tree. The city girl saw this and had a hissy fit, because the fencers were "hurting" the trees ! ! !

I'm proud to be an environmentalist, but I don't care for extremism on either side of the issue. Lumber is a green, renewable resource, nothing wrong with harvesting a few trees here and there.

 

[Andrew96]

That's pretty wild, I can understand why loggers don't get along with them. Sounds like city people ?

That reminds me of a story about one of my neighbors. He owns some vacation property on my mountain, and after his wife died, he remarried to a city girl. Well, they were having their property fenced to keep the cows out. As the workers were stringing barb wire through a forest, sometimes they would simply nail the barb wire to a handy tree. The city girl saw this and had a hissy fit, because the fencers were "hurting" the trees ! ! !

I proud to be an environmentalist, but I don't care for extremism on either side of the issue. Lumber is a green, renewable resource, nothing wrong with harvesting a few trees here and there.

Well the leader of the group actually delivered cash for my mirror. Yes, clearly a city guy (very low to the ground little car with loud music) but was pleasant enough. Actually apologized. Very funny. The broken mirror story may not be over. Apparently the tree farm owner is taking them to court.

 

[Andrew96]

Andrew do you have any dimensions on the hole spacing that you used for your depth of cut adjustments? Also do you have any pictures of how you attached to the power head end of the bar? If you were to do another what changes would you make? What you have built is very close to the design I have been rolling around in my head to build this spring. Thanks Rob

When I drilled those uprights I used a caliper to put the inner at a fixed position out from the end (my depth). I then slid the whole assembly along a backing board (to keep my hole centered) until I had enough room to put another pin hole. The relationship that matters is the position the inner tube protrudes..not where the pin holes are. Of course, the inner tube is drilled out every inch. It's just a lesson in indexed drilling. You align the inner to get your hole centered..drill it. Index up a perfect inch...then drill another. Once you have both inners drilled out, work on the outer. Setup so you are pefectly centered on the inner then crowd for the outter. You'll see. If you haven't done indexed drilling before then get an extra bit of tubing and try it first on scrap. Any error you make will be in your mill forever. I just kept moving up the bar set leaving appropriate space between holes as I went until I had all the 1/8" increments I wanted. Where the holes go is quite arbitrary providing they match an inner (plus you measurement for that hole). Clear as mud?

If I made another one, there is not much I would change. I "think" I'd like a better fit between the inner and outer uprights but that might cause other problems. Mine were a bit loose for me...so I hammered one little area down to get a nicer fit. There is a bit of an crowding issue with the chain bar oil filling hole and the mill. I have to use a water bottle filled with oil to fill it since I cannot reach with a 1 gallon jug without making a mess. I think you'd have that with any double post design. If you went with two near the power head..you wouldn't have a problem. I wasn't going to sacrifice length of cut over using a smaller container to fill the bar oil by spacing the upright farther from the power head. Maybe on a different saw it wouldn't be a problem. So far I'm happy...wouldn't change anything. Works great for me...not too heavy..strong enough. Changes are super quick when I'm cutting little logs and keep going from starter board back to slabbin.
Is this the kind of picture you were after?

Ya..I know it's sideways. At least you can see how it's bolted through the bar.

 

[Fallguy1960]

Thanks for the help. The picture is just what I was looking for. I was guessing at the up rights hole spacing. I thought it looked like the inside was 1" spacing. I have never done index drilling but now I have a idea how to go about it. Thanks Rob

 

[Andrew96]

Rob, Go for it. All that will happen is you drill holes in the wrong place and have to start again. Indexed drilling is only a matter of accuracy. If you think of the inside piece as fixed..you can imagine that the outside piece has to move various amounts down to get the extra space for that dimension. Easy enough. The hard part is making sure a 'move' still has you drilling in the center.
I did think of one change I would make if I did another. I'd make the base of the mill wider. Not to fit a longer bar (that will happen anyway) but wider than the 12" that I have now. Wider would make it easy to get the whole rig up onto the end of a tree to start a cut when you are NOT using a starter board. Right now with 12" wide, less the bar width of say 3", you end up with about 3" of mill to start a cut. Not easy to keep that level. I'd make mine maybe offset next time. Either a bit wider, or don't put the uprights in the center of the mill. That might help the oiler filling clearance issue too.

 

[BobL]

Rob, Go for it. All that will happen is you drill holes in the wrong place and have to start again. Indexed drilling is only a matter of accuracy. If you think of the inside piece as fixed..you can imagine that the outside piece has to move various amounts down to get the extra space for that dimension. Easy enough. The hard part is making sure a 'move' still has you drilling in the center.

Andrew, do you think it's a good idea to clamp the two uprights together and drilling them at the same time - then any variance are the same for both and you end up with a parallel board/slab?

I did think of one change I would make if I did another. I'd make the base of the mill wider. Not to fit a longer bar (that will happen anyway) but wider than the 12" that I have now. Wider would make it easy to get the whole rig up onto the end of a tree to start a cut when you are NOT using a starter board. Right now with 12" wide, less the bar width of say 3", you end up with about 3" of mill to start a cut. Not easy to keep that level. I'd make mine maybe offset next time. Either a bit wider, or don't put the uprights in the center of the mill. That might help the oiler filling clearance issue too.

I agree, extra mill width does help but don't forget that what you gain on one side you lose on the other and that some flat is needed to complete a board as well. My mill is 15.4" wide and although I nearly always use log rails, on the odd occasion where I do cut without rails the extra width is useful in both starting and finishing a cut.

In terms of cutting width I'd suggest bolting and not welding the cross pieces to the main mill rails so that changing bar length can be easily done by using longer rails. There are ways of making a fully welded adjustable cutting width frame but I don't think it's as easy as using bolts.

 

[Andrew96]

Drilling those uprights obviously is the hardest part of making my style mill. I feel in order to drill that properly you will need to drill the outer clamped in place with inner in it. That setup takes a bit of thought. I use a 'crowding' method which really just means you clamp something down which you can jam the part up against each time you remove it. I set that up for my 'set' of inner and outer. As I didn't leave a very large clearance for the pin (it's only 0.002" difference), you cannot simply clamp the inner and outer together. Doing so will require you to clamp them together again in order to get the pin through the set. You need to create and fix a clearance between the inner and outer. I used paper, you could use some thin tape if you have it. A couple of folds of regular paper is worth 0.005 to 0.010" depending on your brand. That will buy you a bit of clearance after you're done to fit the pin through the holes in a non stressed fashion. You would jam the paper on the inside edge of the outer to space the inner away from the wall a bit. You could run a bit of tape down one edge of the inner to space it away from the outer so you get that clearance after drilling. You can see now why the paint I put on the inners ended up being a problem. To much clearance and you will just end up with a sloppy assembly....no good. Now all you need to do is drill it.
Again, I used the crowding method but for the ends (inner and outer) that way I could make two uprights the same. I don't think you'll be able to drill an indexed set of inner and outer posts that actually fit (without really loose holes) unless you drill them as a set. Getting the thing square after is a matter of making two the same (obviously with a tolerance). I actually had more of a perpendicular problem after I welded the feet on these drilled uprights and end up facing the ends off in my lathe to get them square again (heat from welding pulled them). I could have just bent them in a vise though. Not really a major problem. If every part is made perfect...the whole assembly will end up square and true.

As for bolting the rails on my cross pieces....You can do what you want (many people like the removable bar concept) but I decided to make my 'main' mill fixed for this length. I can make it longer by bolting rails to the 'main' part but decided I'd use my smaller mill if I want if I need too. I felt bolting offered (to me) only the ability to change out the side bars for longer ones at the cost of weight and rigidity. I could do that with a bolt on addition (I actually made 3 indexed upright sets together so I have an extra for one removable extension tip in the future). This way I have less bolts to fall apart (or more to safety wire on), slightly less complexity with a less versatile mill. To keep the weight and build time down..you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[chuckwood]

barbed wire in trees...

The city girl saw this and had a hissy fit, because the fencers were "hurting" the trees ! ! !

Good girl, even though she's right for the wrong reasons! Over the years, I've harvested a lot of firewood for myself in urban and agricultural settings. Nothing's more frustrating than trying to fall a tree and then running into old barbed wire, nails, and staples while sawing at the base. I don't even bother with bucking up the first 8 feet or so of the base of a tree if I know it's near or been near a fence line.

 

[Fallguy1960]

Thanks for the insight fella's. I have the rest of the winter to plan. -20 is just a bit to nippy to be working out in the shed.

 

[olyman]

Good girl, even though she's right for the wrong reasons! Over the years, I've harvested a lot of firewood for myself in urban and agricultural settings. Nothing's more frustrating than trying to fall a tree and then running into old barbed wire, nails, and staples while sawing at the base. I don't even bother with bucking up the first 8 feet or so of the base of a tree if I know it's near or been near a fence line.

got a metal detector??--seems guys that use em--swear by em--not at em--

 

[gr8scott72]

got a metal detector??--seems guys that use em--swear by em--not at em--

I've wanted one for a while now for when I'm grinding stumps and now while I'm milling. Seems like I'll have to get one soon.

 

[BobL]

got a metal detector??--seems guys that use em--swear by em--not at em--

I have one and use it on yard trees. I've picked up one nail and missed 2. The other danger with yard trees is concrete and glass. Why on earth people put these into trees is beyond me.

 

[Andrew96]

I guess I'm just new...or lucky. I've never hit anything that caused cutter damage. Does it happen that often? Or is it such a major problem you remember it for years?

 

[820wards]

Andrew,

I like your idea for oiling the nose. I to made my nose oiler so that it oils through the grove in the bar. I silver brased a 1/8" F pipe fitting to the area of the bar not used for milling. Then added a drip system with a needle type valve to mter the oil flow. I like oiling through the grove in the bar. Always good to see new ideas.

Looks like I'll be ordering a new, longer bar for my mill. I only have a 38" bar now. I have the opportunity to mill a 48" wide Camphor tree. Cool wood. I've been told if you make silverware boxes from the wood, the silver won't tarnish.

Thanks for you post.

jerry-

 

[Andrew96]

Jerry, Thanks. I decided to do my oiler based on stuff I read/photos I saw here and what I know I can make. Having photos of how you did it are tremendous. How about adding a photo of your setup so the new people, doing their own have a few more options?

Good job on the big tree...hence big bar. I figure that's how you end up with a bigger bar..the tree shows up, therefore the bar must follow.

 

[rayvil01]

I guess I'm just new...or lucky. I've never hit anything that caused cutter damage. Does it happen that often? Or is it such a major problem you remember it for years?

It happens. I hit one cutting firewood not long ago. It makes a mess of the cutters. That was a 98 DL chain that's now a 60 DL. If you don't have a rivet spinner, you lose a chain.

I hit a polyethylene rope that was embedded in a log while milling. Didn't hurt anything. But, that was bizarre. I started getting green sawdust Someone had tied a rope around the tree and it just grew over it. Wish I had taken a picture.