Wiseco piston update from Baileys

[AUSSIE1]

Shessh, what a bun-fight. Let it go already. This is illustrative of why I no longer want to deal with the public.

Re: the Wiseco pistons, I remember way back when (and it may still be true) that Wiseco would make up a blank and then turn various size pistons off of that blank. You could have a blank made up for a 50mm piston that would also be used for a 52mm piston - the result was a very thick piston skirt.

I never used a Wiseco as I always thought they were too heavy. The stock Japanese pistons I used were very good quality castings and with a very high silicon content.

That said, if Wiseco made up some dome pistons for saws they probably have to put on help to keep up with the demand. The dome piston concept would also be consistent with a 'forged racing piston to handle the extra stress' marketing approach.

Wiseco should step back from the replacement for OEM market (which looks saturated with less expensive pistons) and look at producing some aftermarket hop-up pistons. Heck, as long as they are turning the pistons down they could easily put a dome on them. There would be very little work involved, but they could create their own market (with no competitors) with just a change in tooling.

I'm wondering how many people on this board would buy a 'high compression forged piston' from Wiseco if it was offered. I know I would have to try one.

And a high compression piston offered as an alternative is not new to Wiseco.
But would the extra weight out way the benefits of a comp increase? It's a juggle.

 

[Terry Syd]

Dremel time

I'll bet I could get into such a piston with a Dremel and lighten it up a bunch. The area above the pin boss is one such area on forged pistons, also reducing the thickness of the skirts in the middle and leaving a bit more around the edges, along with removing any sharp edges or corners - might even end up lighter than stock as the forged alloy is stronger than cast.

 

[stihlboy]

are we still at this?

 

[AUSSIE1]

are we still at this?

At which one as this is two threads in one.

 

[stihlboy]

:agree2:seems like a soap opera mixed with the learning channel:agree2:

 

[highpointtree]

Offer

Baileys can send us a saw or three fitted with new pistons and I will keep them insured and use good saw maintanance. We will run them 5-6 days a week for as long as they would like and keep track of conditions and hour's used. we will send saw's back (at their expense) at a time specified by them. or when saw no longer runs. We will provide labor, fuel, chains, bars and saw maintanance. What they get in return is real world testing. I will also report to AS with findings. creating a "BUZZ" for the new product..


waiting for baileys response..

 

[timberwolf]

Testing pistons can turn out results like this pic below where I found the piston to have cracked in 4 places after only a couple minutes of run time.

Extrapolate that failure to another couple minutes of running and it would have likely destroyed a $1000 plus saw.

Its cool Baileys is putting the effort into developing new products, but seems off that the would be guinea pigs need to pay out to have their saws used as a test bed. Who is assuming the risk on this?

 

[edisto]

Baileys can send us a saw or three fitted with new pistons and I will keep them insured and use good saw maintanance. We will run them 5-6 days a week for as long as they would like and keep track of conditions and hour's used. we will send saw's back (at their expense) at a time specified by them. or when saw no longer runs. We will provide labor, fuel, chains, bars and saw maintanance. What they get in return is real world testing. I will also report to AS with findings. creating a "BUZZ" for the new product.

Read carefully...Bailey's was more interested in fit and finish than they were in durability. Like I said before, there is no way these pistons have not been tested. I think Bailey's is just going the extra mile to get some early customer feedback.

 

[Fastcast]

Read carefully...Bailey's was more interested in fit and finish than they were in durability. Like I said before, there is no way these pistons have not been tested. I think Bailey's is just going the extra mile to get some early customer feedback.

The way companies operate today, I'm not so sure I'd take anything for granted....IMO

 

[highpointtree]

Read carefully...Bailey's was more interested in fit and finish than they were in durability. Like I said before, there is no way these pistons have not been tested. I think Bailey's is just going the extra mile to get some early customer feedback.

I would be happy to hear what you KNOW about the way the pistons have been tested. You THINK Bailey's is going the extra mile to get feedback.
So actually your not 100% sure about either statement.
my offer still stands for real world testing from a real world company..

 

[THALL10326]

Allow me to speculate wildly

I don't think Bailey's intention was to do testing, I think all the testing was done before Bailey's agreed to sell this product. My guess is that Bailey's wanted some word of mouth advertising. I bet they figured that if they got one of the most stand up guys on Arborist site to install some of these (likely awesome) pistons they would create a buzz while building their brand.

It isn't an accident they chose Brad:
1. he is very representative of a chainsaw nut;
2. he knows what he is doing and insists on doing it well;
3. he is willing to teach people how to do things; and
4. he is very willing to help people.

Its too bad this didn't work out and instead this thread got completely out of whack. I have seen more high and mighty today than I cared to. Some people brought up fair points and didn't attack anyone, but some of you jackals really showed the quality of your character.

None of you all had anything crappy to say to Brad during the BIL thread- why didn't you call him a swindler then?

I'm guessing your referring to me, if not forgive me. If you find the word swindler offensive thats good, I find a swindler offensive period. Brad said the offer wasn't meant as it appeared, I'll take his word for it. However cut it anyway you like the offer is a swindle if you read it word for word.

You also seem to be calling Brad a lyer in your post. Your laying it all on Baileys yet Brad said don't blame Baileys for it was his idea. Now either you aren't reading all the posts or your just full blowing hot air. If you want to be a armchair quarterback at least watch the whole game so you will know what the hell your talking about. Says alot about your character doesn't it, you have a great day now ya hear..

 

[spike60]

Testing pistons can turn out results like this pic below where I found the piston to have cracked in 4 places after only a couple minutes of run time.

Extrapolate that failure to another couple minutes of running and it would have likely destroyed a $1000 plus saw.

Its cool Baileys is putting the effort into developing new products, but seems off that the would be guinea pigs need to pay out to have their saws used as a test bed. Who is assuming the risk on this?

That picture ought to generate a lot of enthusiasm among would be volunteers!

I got a question here: Did I read it right that these pistons cost as much or more than OEM? Who the heck is going to buy these things? Maybe if as some guys suggested, they came out with some domed pistons that would offer a performance advantage. But otherwise, why would anyone buy one of them instead of an OEM unit?

 

[weimedog]

Just a thought on the forged vs. cast thing. I can't think of any race bikes that use cast as OEM. There is an aftermarket company that sells investment cast pistons (Vertex)....but the forged pistons are by nature stronger. Cold seize? Thats a potential issue with any piston, especially at colder temps or when things are new. Water cooled motocross bikes have been around since the 1980's with forged pistons. NO one is less responsible than the kids who get those motorcycles handed to them for toys and I can't remember hearing cold seizing being a huge issue.

I would rather buy a well designed forged piston any day. I don't know the chainsaw market well, but my bet is the OEM Mahle's are and have been for years. Their Motorcycle pistons are.

 

[spacemule]

Somebody needs some Midol.

 

[THALL10326]

Somebody needs some Midol.

Who?

 

[spacemule]

Who?

As a general rule, those who post more than 500 words in a post.

 

[THALL10326]

As a general rule, those who post more than 500 words in a post.

Huh, ohhhhhhhh I getcha. Yeah I just got done reading that. Great post I thought. Here comes my reply to it.

 

[Fastcast]

Fact. Brads idea was a bad idea, really bad IMHO.

Fact. Some want Brad gone so he's no longer a threat to them. These people typically have small and insignificant genitalia.

Fact. People who are not popular, hate people that are.

Fact. A man would have taken brads apoligy for what it is, and moved on. Children however are narcissistic, and want all the attention. Narcissistic people often have unconscious deficits in self-esteem.

I guess you could be speaking to numerous people in this thread. I've had go arounds with Brad (surprise, big deal) and can tell you I have absolutely no desire to do what Brad does. He's no threat to me whatsoever.

Fact.

You only pay me $50 labor.

I'm just offering my service to help get them tested.

I'm just not going to install them for free on someone elses saw.

No agenda. This wasn't a scheme for me to make money.

COME ON......Now someone believes people are either damn stupid or gullible or the OP is one or the other.


One of the best quotes on this entire thread is right here.

I will give you a bit of free advice; go take business courses at your local community college. If you want to continue to play business man online you really need to get both a financial and legal clue. Good luck!

I believe Brad really needs to take Centaur's advise....Having a business myself (14 years, not saw related) with a real accountant, vendors license, insurance, state and federal taxes, college degree etc....He needs to educate himself to be successful long term. You can't play business man. You're either one or your not. If you're making a profit on a regular basis, you better be playing by the rules or the IRS is going to pull your number sooner or later and it won't be pretty......Especially for a man with a young family.

Brad either needs to quit playing people for a fool or quit behaving like one himself.....You can't have it both ways.

This criticism is harsh and the whiners will cry foul but the "real" business world is harsh and that's a fact!

 

[teacherman]

Why don't we just get this thread back on track, the way Brad intended it.

Yer right. Sorry. I did learn that:
1. Wiseco is a premium mfr. of small engine pistons.
2. Forged pistons, being of higher density, expand more rapidly than cast, and though they are tougher and of better overall quality, there is a risk of something called "cold seizure," which can be prevented by allowing engines to warm up before putting them to work. I will now do this.
3. There are some questionable aspects to the beta testing process Brad laid out in the original post, and it does seem a bit odd.


I personally would only use a Wiseco slug if an OEM one were NLA. Not a big aftermarket guy, myself. My Subaru had a whitish plug color after 50K using a K & N air filter, so I went back to OEM. Mileage is not everything. OK, I will step aside for more knowledgeable folks.

 

[blsnelling]

...no one likes to be screwed, got it, its very simple. What we had here was a Kodak moment and the picture wasn't pretty but the exposure was crystal clear. Even the subject in the picture had to admit it didn't look good after it was pointed out to him. He took it well, you should too...

Tom, you may make some valid points. But at the same time, you're trying to tear down my character. I take offense to that! You show me where I tried to screw someone over! Maybe that's your business practice, but it's sure not mine! Sometimes your a great source of fun and information. Other times, you're nothing more than a cranky old troll, just like MCW described.