Spiltter rebuild issues

[TJ-Bill]

I think I have a bad seal in my cylinder. Is there a way to tell?

I hooked everything up and started up the spiltter, I had the hoses to the cyl backwards from what they should have been (Forward was reverse). The piston moved very poorly and wouldn't move then 1 inch before stalling the motor. I switched the lines and got the same response. I then swapped out my vavle with another one and got the piston to extend all the way out but it wouldn't come back just kept stalling the motor. I running a 11 Hp Honda and a 12 GPM single stage pump.

any thoughts?

 

[some zilch]

i doubt that is a seal issue. it seems more like a valve problem, or a mechanical issue somewhere on the splitter itself; ive seen plugged return lines cause major cylinder stoppage. a bad seal would tend to present symptoms like no cylinder power or slow to function, or loses power quickly when getting into a spot where pressure is needed. make sure that the "slide" isnt binding causing the cylinder to stop.

 

[gandrimp]

Are you sure you have the hoses hooked up right?

A single stage pump pulls hard,11 hp aint enough.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

No chance this is caused by a bad cylinder seal.

If return line from valve to tank was the fault, you should have the problem direct after firing up engine....

hp power = pressure psi x flow gpm / 1714>>>> 1000x12/1714>>>>7hp per 1000 psi pressure.....11hp should be more than enough when not operating the control valve.....suggest you check pressure (at stall) with a 0-3000psi gauge mounted on the pressure line between the pump and the control valve...

Which of the hoses to the cylinder get pressurized when extend?? Retract??
You can check this just by hands on (grip hoses) when operating....


Check all you new adapters/fittings, between valve and cylinder, so the are not restricted (just a small hole). That happens often that a restrictor get thrown at the wrong bin at the hydraulic store/shop...look the same as an adapter....

 

[TJ-Bill]

No chance this is caused by a bad cylinder seal.

If return line from valve to tank was the fault, you should have the problem direct after firing up engine....

hp power = pressure psi x flow gpm / 1714>>>> 1000x12/1714>>>>7hp per 1000 psi pressure.....11hp should be more than enough when not operating the control valve.....suggest you check pressure (at stall) with a 0-3000psi gauge mounted on the pressure line between the pump and the control valve...

Which of the hoses to the cylinder get pressurized when extend?? Retract??
You can check this just by hands on (grip hoses) when operating....


Check all you new adapters/fittings, between valve and cylinder, so the are not restricted (just a small hole). That happens often that a restrictor get thrown at the wrong bin at the hydraulic store/shop...look the same as an adapter....

I've got a 3000 PSI gauge coming off a T directly of the pump on the High side. It happens very quickly but the gauge hits about 900 when it stalls the Engine. I'll have to double check mine lines. While they are in very good shape they came out of a box of lines my Uncle gave me a few years ago, and I didn't actually check for a restrictor. I'm using all new fitting and I'm pretty sure they're the right kind but I will check again.

I'd be happy if I didn't have to replace the seals in the Cyl. it looks old and I could only find a couple very hard to read #'s cast into the center pivot.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

I'd be happy if I didn't have to replace the seals in the Cyl. it looks old and I could only find a couple very hard to read #'s cast into the center pivot.

your problem is increased pressure, that stalls the engine....a leaking piston seal wont increase pressure, it would rather decrease pressure...

Did you do the hands grip pressure test on cylinder hoses??

disconnect the cylinder hoses and check if you can pull piston out by hand/arm....

900psi will make less than 7hp....I assume your gauge is liquid filled....this is happening so instantly so the gauge might not show that pressure go up to 1500psi or more...
I would suggest you adjust your pressure relief valve to 900psi or less, to see if engine keep stalling...

Can you put a tach on the engine to check rpm's??

You also need to provide ALL pump data you can get...."12gpm" pump do not mean "s**t", unless you know what speed it is rated for....so DISPLACEMENT (cui) per rev, and max operating RPM, is the proper way to classify a pump.....that way we can figure out your REAL pump flow.....

 

[TJ-Bill]

your problem is increased pressure, that stalls the engine....a leaking piston seal wont increase pressure, it would rather decrease pressure...

Did you do the hands grip pressure test on cylinder hoses??

disconnect the cylinder hoses and check if you can pull piston out by hand/arm....

900psi will make less than 7hp....I assume your gauge is liquid filled....this is happening so instantly so the gauge might not show that pressure go up to 1500psi or more...
I would suggest you adjust your pressure relief valve to 900psi or less, to see if engine keep stalling...

Can you put a tach on the engine to check rpm's??

You also need to provide ALL pump data you can get...."12gpm" pump do not mean "s**t", unless you know what speed it is rated for....so DISPLACEMENT (cui) per rev, and max operating RPM, is the proper way to classify a pump.....that way we can figure out your REAL pump flow.....

Great thanks for the info. I'll go out tonight and do this.. what exactly am I looking for with the hand test? is this just to double check that I have it plumbed the correct way. Should I mabye put the original valve back on instead of the Double valve?

Yes I'm using a liquid filled gauge, Is the relief valve the spring on the end of the valve shaft?

I'll grab some numbers off the pump tonight and Google it.

I don't have a way of putting a tach on the motor, but I have seen specs online for the Honda's for RPM at idle and max RPM's.

Thanks AKKAMAAN this is alot to handle but I have to learn it sometime.

 

[jags]

Under a no-load situation, you should really never get enough pressure to stall that engine. I don't know why it would hit 900 psi during the return cycle unless it was bottoming out the cylinder (at the end of the return stroke). Are you binding on something??

As said before, 11hp ain't gonna pull that single stage pump to very high psi before it starts to stall out.

 

[Blowncrewcab]

Can you put up some pics of your pump/valve and hoses? If we can see it, we can get you going in the right direction. The folks on here have seen just about every kind of pump & Valve setup. How many hoses are coming off your valve? and are there any Markings for the ports? Like "P" or "T" "A" or "B"?

 

[TJ-Bill]

I'm just about to head out. I'll snap some picstures and maybe take a video. I thought it was pretty straight forward, I have an IN and and OUT on the valve and the 2 ports on the top. I didn't think it mattered which one went where as long and the rod went in the rigth direction. I've had the lines switched with the same outcome.. I'll take some pics of both valves and the pump. Hopefully beable to find some info on the pump tonight.

 

[TJ-Bill]

OK.. so I went out tonight I started the spiltter and had a real hard time getting it going and to stay running. I took the high side off the big valve and the motor started and ran. (had the hose running to the tank before anyone asks.

I found the bypass.pressure relief on the smaller valve and took it out here's what I found.

Here's a picture of the pump

I'm going to take the nut out on the bypass and see what happens.

 

[TJ-Bill]

Finding info on the pump was easier then I thought.. here's what I found

Model - 12
12 GPM (53,2 lpm)
Output at 1500 PSI (103 Bar) & 1500 RPM

 

[TJ-Bill]

Little more update.. I put the little valve back on and got the cylinder to move forward all the way but not backwards.. I was able to get the cylinder back to the stop by putting a bungie around the lever in the back position, turning the motor off and turning it over a few times.

I noticed there's a screw just above the valve handle pointing into the ports what's that for? I'm going to swap hose tomorrow night and see what that does..

 

[Blowncrewcab]

Some valves have pressure adjustment & Flow adjustment, The flow would be a tapered screw type if there is one.

The hose from the pump should go to the IN, Then the hose on the OUT should go back to the tank. The other two ports hook the the Rod End or Cap End of the Cylinder.

Is it possible you have a closed center valve? It would Kill the motor unless the cylinder was moving?

While its apart blow some air into the IN port with the spool shifted into the middle position and see if it blows through, If it doesn't it's a closed center and you'll need a new plan (or be really fast with your hands )

 

[jags]

Honestly TJBill - you would be better off getting a nice 16 GPM 2 stage pump for this config. It will have better performance in EVERY way. Speed, power, fuel consumption, etc.

You have a 1500 rpm pump that you are trying to run at 3200-3600 rpm. Wrong useage. You have a 12 gpm single stage pump that your power plant will never create over 1700 psi from. It simply doesn't have the HP to do it with that pump.

Note: most log splitters will come from the factory with a preset relief valve somewhere in the 2250-2500 psi range, for comparison.

 

[TJ-Bill]

I just called the local shop.. 16 GPM Dual stage $185 OVer nighted.

Really sucks because spent a 1/2 a day with the neighbour building a mount for this pump. Should I bother trying to get it going again tonight or just go order the pump at lunch

 

[jags]

I just called the local shop.. 16 GPM Dual stage $185 OVer nighted.

Really sucks because spent a 1/2 a day with the neighbour building a mount for this pump. Should I bother trying to get it going again tonight or just go order the pump at lunch

Order the pump Bill.

 

[TJ-Bill]

Order the pump Bill.

I still not convinced that the pump is the main problem.. the 11hp should still be able to move the piston back and forth with no load. I don't mind spending the $$ on the pump but if I have to go spend another $200 on the valve

 

[jags]

I still not convinced that the pump is the main problem.. the 11hp should still be able to move the piston back and forth with no load. I don't mind spending the $$ on the pump but if I have to go spend another $200 on the valve

In the long run, your gonna spend the $$ on the pump anyhow. Trust me.

It may not be the current problem, but it is a problem.

 

[Blowncrewcab]

Can you tell if the Valve has a Closed Center? it kinda fits the problem your having.