GPS Mapping programs....need one.

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Oldtimer

Oldtimer

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I need to invest in a quality GPS mapping setup. I need to be able to walk woodlot boundary lines, then be able to print out USGS topo maps with the lot lines overlaid on them.

What do the pros use?
 
AndyB89

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GIS , Geographical Information System. I don't know how what your budget is, but i learned this program in college. The program has overlapping abilities, boundary lines, ect. The program also has a hand held GPS unit that you can log in points ( ie trees). Hope this helps...
 
MtnHermit

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Cheap start, FREE:
  • Download Garmin Training Center (Install into Win PC, not Mac), then MapSource (Install). You don't need TC after you install MS.
  • Google for a NH topo map to install into MS
  • Take your Garmin, even your car Nuvi will work, go to each property corner and record a waypoint.
  • Upload the waypoints into MS
  • You can use MS to connect the dots and see the property in topo map context.

More Expensive
  • Purchase a copy, free trial avail, of Global Mapper ~$400, it will load any GIS file available
  • Load your waypoints into GM
  • Download 24K topos from the USGS, free, as bitmaps directly from within GM
  • See your property on top of topo
  • Print, save to shapefile, etc in GM

Much More Expensive, Budget Buster
  • Buy a Trimble to more accurately record waypoints
 
madhatte

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Best-case: pro-grade GPS unit with pro-grade software. I can offer some detailed advice there if you're interested.

Next best-case: semi-pro hardware and software. I kind of like the Garmin Rino units for this as you can actually get datasets for them such as USGS quads or National Geographic software or the like. Priced pretty reasonably.

Bare-minimum: a laptop with a GPS receiver connected and some open-source software like Google Maps installed. You'll need to download the data you need ahead of time, the receiver will keep you on a leash, and the laptop is fragile and cumbersome in the woods. It'll work, though, and I've mapped that way before, but I don't recommend it.

Another option may be a smartphone with GIS/GPS software. Windows Mobile phones will run ArcPad, so that might actually be a very good solution, depending on your needs.
 
Steve NW WI

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Another option may be a smartphone with GIS/GPS software. Windows Mobile phones will run ArcPad, so that might actually be a very good solution, depending on your needs.

Madhatte, the GPS in my particular smartphone will often lose signal if you so much as look at it wrong. I wouldn't consider it an option. I suspect many will be the same way. You just can't pack all the goodies into a pocket package, and expect good out of it.

Oldtimer, if you've got a fertilizer business nearby, they likely have a nice setup on an ATV for grid soil sampling and would likely run the borders for ya for not much money this time of year. You oughta see the stuff a modern farmer can pull up on a map these days, variable rate seeding and fertilizing, yeild mapping, field work done with auto steer to less than an inch error from pass to pass, really neat stuff. Trimble, mentioned above is one of the big players in ag.
 
madhatte

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Madhatte, the GPS in my particular smartphone will often lose signal if you so much as look at it wrong. I wouldn't consider it an option. I suspect many will be the same way. You just can't pack all the goodies into a pocket package, and expect good out of it.

Heh. Welcome to GPS. Even the best of 'em don't work worth a crap under a forest canopy. Back in the day (ca 1996) we'd run an antenna up a 15-m fiberglass lineman's pole with coax cable dangling down to the ground; the weight of the thing made it not stay anywhere near centered above a point. What we'd do was swing it through an arc from one relaxed position to another, and as the antenna swung through the approximate apex of the arc, we'd collect data. For every post-processed data point, we probably took 15-20 swings.

Nowadays, the best way to handle this problem is to open and close all traverses with good points taken in clear view of the sky, even if the points are not on the transect itself. This way you can correct the traverse data to known good points at the beginning and end. Some software is good at this sort of jerry-rigging and some isn't. In the field, it's always a balance between speed and accuracy. So far, I have never had both. I don't know how many hours I've wasted standing there like an idiot, GPS unit in hand, waiting for the satellites to line up so that I can move to the next point. There are usually very good times of day for data collection and very bad times; these will vary from location to location and from season to season.

GPS is a great tool, but it is most certainly NOT without limitations.
 

2yb3

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and heres the guy who does this for a living and cant even remember the name of the programs my buddy/party chief uses, i just use the trimble r8/rtk plot my lines and he does the printing out stuff
 
Oldtimer

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A GPS in my phone with a Windows topo map program to download a track into would be perfect.

I don't want to launch and track the space shuttle. I want to print out an 8-1/2" x 11" topo map with yellow lot lines on it that are within maybe 5 feet of accurate. I want this more for my landowners to get their head around the job I propose than for my own use.

Where have the days of simple electronic devices gone? These days the simplest device has 1000 different uses.
 

lfnh

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Thought some before posting at the risk of aiding and abetting confusion on this topic.
Sure hope it doesn't. But if so, Mods feel free to get the ole axe out.

Budget sometimes has other meanings and this is one of them. Part of the budget is cost of the equipment to get the position data. The other budget is what degree of accuracy is needed and the effort needed to get that accuracy. Turning on a GPS receiver and collecting data is one thing. Having confidence in the accuracy of the data and its limitations has a little more to it.

In this case something to consider in collecting GPS positions as the boundary line is walked, is the accuracy of the GPS data. Simply put a consumer grade receiver might produce positions accurate to 10-15 meters of true position horizontal, depending on many things (signal strength, GPS satellites in view, signal deflection).
This position accuracy can be improved several ways: by collecting data when gps satellites are in best sky position for your area; augmenting the receiver GPS signals with differential correction signals from a beacon in real time; and/or correcting your receiver positions after collection by post processing the position data with software (last is not trivial and not cheap).

Realtime differential corrected positions can improve position accuracy to 3 meters (cm in more expensive equipment). The two 'free' sources of real time differential correction signals are the Coast Guard (DGPS) and the FAA (WAAS). Note there are other private DGPS services that a paid subscription based (John Deere AG Starfire is one example mentioned). Private corrections are not cheap.
Corrected vs uncorrected receiver positions can be verified by locating an NGS benchmark and standing on it with a receiver. Comparing the NGS position with that of the receiver's uncorrected and corrected positions will give a good, quick sense of the receiver's accuracy at that time with that set of GPS satellites in view.

Coast Guard DGPS are radio beacon signals and usually good to correct positions down to 3 meters. DGPS signal reception is handled by a separate receiver (typical) or by builtin receiver in the more expensive GPS units. In any case, the GPS unit will automatically monitor and apply corrections to your positions in real time. Signal coverage for the US is shown on Coast Guard online maps and has improved a lot since the 90's. Line of sight to the Coast Guard beacons is not necessary to receive the signals and are less affected by terrain or obstructions. However, as Madhatte said, GPS satellite position signals can be compromised by tree canopy. Conifers are the biggest PITA. Hardwoods less so when bare of leaves.

WAAS, on the otherhand, is satellite based correction signals and can provide position accuracy to under 3 meters. These signals are handled by nearly all the GPS receivers directly without additional equipment. The WAAS signals are line of sight to the satellites low on the horizion and may easily be disrupted by terrain, trees, etc. These signals are more appropriate for air navigation or open ground navigation. However, it may work for your area and application. Just be aware of possible limitations.

Given your budget it might be worth looking for GPS receivers that are out of the box ready to receive WAAS and Coast Guard DGPS correction data. At least the capability is there if you need the enhanced position accuracy.

Again, if walking a boundary line once with good GPS signals and a relatively bare canopy and then plot the positions on a topo map with good confidence they are close to true positions, differential corrected positions are essential, ime.
Might have some folks in the state extension service or USDA FSA office that could be of value in helping with practical use of equipment in your area for your application. Maybe someone local that maps snowmobile trails would be worth chasing down. They might have some practical woods experience with GPS receivers and mapping within your budget that could save a lot time and money. Maybe even offer a chance to see a unit in action under a forest canopy.

Getting accurate position data reliably, as simply as possible, in one walk though is 99% of the battle. Exporting the position data and plotting it on a digital topo is icing on the corks. Just a thought.

Hope this makes some sense.


btw, 20 years ago it was a lot harder, and insanely expensive, believe me.
 

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