why do i keep having explosions!!!???

[olyman]

Does it have to be by the wood furnace? or just in the same room? wont this cool the room down in the winter? especially when im not burning?

when the stove isnt burning,,the air "pressure" inside the house,,goes neutral..when the stove is burning,,your creating a vacuum in the house..if you dont put a outside air intake in,,it WILL pull in air wherever it will come in,,esp thru windows that arent perfectly air tight......By the furnace..so the cold air goes right to the stove intake. it doesnt have to..you can also plumb it into the intake side of the forced air furnace,,and it will relieve the vacuum.. this aint needed with electric heat..as you arent burning up the oygen in the air supporting a fire..

 

[olyman]

There's about a 99% chance that the outdoor air supplys that are being suggested are a total waste of your time and money.(that's the national average, I looked it up folks.)


You are adding a large load of fresh wood onto coals and either not supplying enough air your heating unit...or your chimney is blocked up with creosote from the poor burning practices that you are admitting to. Other have suggested that your door needs maintance........and it does!

snopes tell you that,,or a PROFESSIONAL furnace installer??????? or a PROFESSIONAL woodstove installer,such as Keith?????? such works of knowledge from you...

 

[olyman]

Oly you came into this thread gunning for me......not the other way around.


If you don't like having it jammed back down your throat.......


....then shut your mouth!

since you W E R E ,,a EX mod,,you are perfect...we should all on this forum,,submit to your superior attitude..just remember,,clem the quiets,,comment to you..and it was well placed

 

[olyman]

Oly you came into this thread gunning for me......not the other way around.

:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange: read back,,in other threads,,where you attacked me for my view, on this very same subject,,you seem to have a selective memory hey mods,,delete this whole thread,,as the great man treeco,,or del corbin,,or whatever his new name is,, knows it all...

 

[CrappieKeith]

Outdoor Air Supplies

Outdoor Air Supplies


It seemed like such a good idea until it was tested.

Some building codes in North America require that woodburning equipment have a supply of combustion air provided from outside the dwelling. These rules were put in place on the assumptions that most smoke spillage from wood stoves, fireplaces, furnaces and so on is caused by their inability to "get enough air" and that the outdoor air supply would provide enough air and therefore reduce spillage.

In 1989, when Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation published the report of an ambitious laboratory research project, the results made clear that both assumptions were wrong. It turns out that most smoke spillage from woodburning systems is caused by bad system design and that outdoor air supplies don't do much of anything to reduce spillage.

The question of how to supply combustion air to wood burning appliances is complex and difficult, and made harder to understand by the fact that the scientific findings on the behavior of outdoor air supplies tend to contradict the normal assumptions that people make.

The articles in the left column offer a basic explanation of why outdoor air supplies, whether directly ducted to the combustion chamber or indirectly to the room the appliance is in, don't reliably improve performance or reduce smoke spillage into the room.

What a crock of ####...was that over the top...?
In the testing I have seen...in person....a new home..pretty tight. a wood furnace running and then had a clothes dryer turn on....I watched smoke flow out the BDR...then kicked on the bathroom fan...more smoke rolled out the flue and the air intake on the fire door.
When you look at the cfms in combination what these appliances are venting taking combustion air out of the home...what is replacing it?????????? Without make up air..if it is a tight home...nothing....hence back drafting. Wait... the home also had a gas hot water heater and since they were washing clothes it was venting making hot water too.

Sure I agree in poorly designed flues or cold over sized flues or flues not long enough being apart of the problem.Moisture in wood can be an addition to the issue.Flue caps can be issues...all effecting draft speeds. Draft speeds have something to do with fire temps and fire temps have something to do with flue gas temps and they have something to do with draft speeds and or lack of.

I find in a few cases that it is not just 1 thing. Lack or rise,too long of horizontal runs ,lack of make up air and over sized flues out cold masonry flues...get my point yet.....when a FAK was added the back drafting issue went away and the flue gas temps hit what they were supposed to.

 

[Chris-PA]

Keith, I think you can certainly come up with scenarios where outside air would help. Having read those articles previously, I think the conclusion was that they often cause more problems than they solve and are often not necessary. IMO, part of the issue is the attempt to create air-tight dwellings - nice from an energy point of view, but a really bad idea from many others.

Anyway, here the OP has gaps in the door seal and is not getting smoke or CO2 buildup after all day of smoldering fires, just explosions. That says combustible gasses are building up and igniting uncontrollably inside the stove. And apparently there's enough draft to keep a pressure drop between the interior of the stove and room, otherwise smoke would be coming out into the room. Something is keeping air from flowing through the stove - is that restriction an inability to get replacement air into the house, or simply that the stove is stopped down too hard? The first thing to try would obviously be opening up the air control and see if it stops.

I think it would be hard to keep the smoke out of the room if it were a replacement air problem in the room - it would have to be sealed well enough to keep much of any air moving through he stove, and with no air flow there's be no pressure drop going into the stove.

 

[reaperman]

I'm certainly no expert but I can share what happened after my home was built 5 years ago. My new home is equipped with a wood furnace in the basement. My home is very tight. How tight? Take the past two days for example. The last fire I lit in my wood furnace was on Wed night, (today its Friday). The fire went out sometime during the night wed, I dont know what time. I woke up Thurs am to exactly 70 degrees inside temp, outside temp was 19 degrees. I didn't light a fire all day (Thurs), nor last night (Thurs night). The daytime high Thursday, was 38 degrees. Last night it dipped down to a low of 15 degrees. Now Friday morning the inside temp of my house was 62. So I only lost 8 degrees in over a 24 hour period in temps as low as 15 degrees. I normally dont let my home get this cool, but I know from experience my home wouldnt drop lower than the low 60's.

Now to my point, my home is tight. After my house was built and I started using my wood furnace. I noticed frost forming around the front door on the main living level. To make a long story shorter, the builder came and checked things out and suggested I put in some kind of air supply to feed the wood furnace. Problem solved. The furnace was pulling outside air around the weather stripping on the door. The cold air was condensing on the door and causing a frost built up around the edges. In real cold weather there was so much frost the door wouldnt close tight unless I scrapped it off.

Just about everyone who has ran a wood stove has had experience with the scenario of smoke igniting. Usually when the stoves door is open. My main concern for safety is the carbon monoxide issue. And how negative pressure can influence its poisoning. Nobody likes to listen to the evening news and hear about the family found dead due to CO poisoning. But it seems to happen each winter.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Keith if you read what the OP has said he pretty much gives all of the clues as to why he is having a problem.

Do you think all of the things you are describing as using up the indoor air are happening everytime he has a problem?

The odds are that they are not. Yet he has the back puffing happening.

Sounds like you have a solution but not to the problem that is being described.

How is an outdoor air supply going to help a wood burning units performance when the door moves back and forth 1/2 inch?

When the operator fills the unit and then cuts back the air and closes the damper 3/4 of the way?


Does an outdoor air supply fix these problems?

Will an outdoor air supply help a Stihl 036 recover from being run lean and scoring it's cylinder for the past three years?

How about focusing on what the operator is saying that he is doing wrong first.......and if fixing those problems don't solve the problem then moving on to other solutions?

I hate playing Carnack..I'LL LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU....how do you know for sure Del C?...what is his draft speed?...what's his flue like? Is it proper and not over sized and is it insulated proper? What is his exact moisture content?
There's other questions and to be sure you do not know anything...you may have an inkling or an idea but not exact which means to make any comment to help this fellow is purely a freakin guess.
Unless you can go there with tools and do an exact testing...shut the hell up.
Cause anything coming outta that mouth is pure conjecture!

....and we are simply trying to help him out...you wanna make points about others and their conjecture...assclown syndrome.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Right back at ya, you conjecturing assclown.

Being your solution is an outdoor air supply in a situation that is unknown............


..........are you wearing your Carnack hat today?

We do have an idea then don't we...it's a drafting issue...well what causes drafting issues...attack that .

So you are admitting you can not go there but you want to turn it back on me.Pure assclown behavior.

 

[tooold]

aaron.....you stated that you have two CO2 alarms in the house but didnt say where. You should have one in the basement because co2 is heavy and will collect down there.

I know a couple that have a earth home that only heat with wood. They found out that the house was so tight, they needed outside air for the woodstove to operate properly. When you would run the cloths dryer, they would lose most of their draft. It is easy to check to see if this is your problem, crack a door or window open.

 

[jefke]

this is my first post on this forum,it is not my language,or my discusion;
but it is very simple:always make compensation air vent in a room with a stove!
then learn hou to use the stove.
and yes i am a proffesionel.

 

[aaronmach1]

wow this thread has blew up since last night! assclownery and all!:msp_biggrin:
Well i just got done putting on a new door seal and adjusting the door handle lock down tighter to hold the door shut tighter, waiting at least an hour for the seal cement to dry then ill fire it.
I took apart the exhaust pipe too see what it looked like and the chimney flue. Wait till i post the pics, it doesnt look good at all!!!! and ive only had it burnin a week now with the new stainless flue liner. ill post pics soon.....

 

[aaronmach1]

heres the pics:
One end of the black stove pipe exhaust(chimney side):

Heres the same pipe on the wood furnace side:

Heres are two looks into the pipe that goes through the cement wall to the chinmey flue:

And finally a look down the stainless flue liner from the roof.Has a "thin" black coating almost sticky and a boxelder bug in it:

 

[Chris-PA]

Looking at the pictures you posted in the other thread:

I'm wondering if you have an air return into the room where that stove is? Is the door to the basement kept open?

 

[laynes69]

Why did you put in a 6x10" liner? Your furnace calls for a 6" flue exhaust which is around 28 sq.in. Your liner is 60 sq.in which is a little more than double the size needed. The larger the flue, the longer it takes to heat the chimney. This will cause a sluggish draft and can cause creosote. With a chimney liner, bigger isn't better. You should have installed a 6" flue to match the furnace. The liner is safer than the original, but it's size doesn't help anything. Also looking at your flue pipe off the furnace if your not running a baro, you have leakage in the pipe.

 

[olyman]

What a crock of ####...was that over the top...?
In the testing I have seen...in person....a new home..pretty tight. a wood furnace running and then had a clothes dryer turn on....I watched smoke flow out the BDR...then kicked on the bathroom fan...more smoke rolled out the flue and the air intake on the fire door.
When you look at the cfms in combination what these appliances are venting taking combustion air out of the home...what is replacing it?????????? Without make up air..if it is a tight home...nothing....hence back drafting. Wait... the home also had a gas hot water heater and since they were washing clothes it was venting making hot water too.

Sure I agree in poorly designed flues or cold over sized flues or flues not long enough being apart of the problem.Moisture in wood can be an addition to the issue.Flue caps can be issues...all effecting draft speeds. Draft speeds have something to do with fire temps and fire temps have something to do with flue gas temps and they have something to do with draft speeds and or lack of.

I find in a few cases that it is not just 1 thing. Lack or rise,too long of horizontal runs ,lack of make up air and over sized flues out cold masonry flues...get my point yet.....when a FAK was added the back drafting issue went away and the flue gas temps hit what they were supposed to.

OMG!!! you just challenged,,THE MAN!!!!!

 

[olyman]

I hate playing Carnack..I'LL LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU....how do you know for sure Del C?...what is his draft speed?...what's his flue like? Is it proper and not over sized and is it insulated proper? What is his exact moisture content?
There's other questions and to be sure you do not know anything...you may have an inkling or an idea but not exact which means to make any comment to help this fellow is purely a freakin guess.
Unless you can go there with tools and do an exact testing...shut the hell up.
Cause anything coming outta that mouth is pure conjecture!

....and we are simply trying to help him out...you wanna make points about others and their conjecture...assclown syndrome.

:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:why is it,,three of us,,have told whatever his new name is,,that he is wrong,,and yet,,he still keeps blabbering, hes right.. pure conjecture is right,Keith....

 

[olyman]

I'm certainly no expert but I can share what happened after my home was built 5 years ago. My new home is equipped with a wood furnace in the basement. My home is very tight. How tight? Take the past two days for example. The last fire I lit in my wood furnace was on Wed night, (today its Friday). The fire went out sometime during the night wed, I dont know what time. I woke up Thurs am to exactly 70 degrees inside temp, outside temp was 19 degrees. I didn't light a fire all day (Thurs), nor last night (Thurs night). The daytime high Thursday, was 38 degrees. Last night it dipped down to a low of 15 degrees. Now Friday morning the inside temp of my house was 62. So I only lost 8 degrees in over a 24 hour period in temps as low as 15 degrees. I normally dont let my home get this cool, but I know from experience my home wouldnt drop lower than the low 60's.

Now to my point, my home is tight. After my house was built and I started using my wood furnace. I noticed frost forming around the front door on the main living level. To make a long story shorter, the builder came and checked things out and suggested I put in some kind of air supply to feed the wood furnace. Problem solved. The furnace was pulling outside air around the weather stripping on the door. The cold air was condensing on the door and causing a frost built up around the edges. In real cold weather there was so much frost the door wouldnt close tight unless I scrapped it off.

Just about everyone who has ran a wood stove has had experience with the scenario of smoke igniting. Usually when the stoves door is open. My main concern for safety is the carbon monoxide issue. And how negative pressure can influence its poisoning. Nobody likes to listen to the evening news and hear about the family found dead due to CO poisoning. But it seems to happen each winter.

thank you sir...............mr brain,,will be mad for days..

 

[olyman]

The facts point to improper use. Loading a stove with fresh wood that has a hot bed of coals.......and them dampering it down.



Another member has just posted that his house was too tight and frost was forming around his front doors seals on his house. He did not have a backpuffing problem.....or smoke problems........or if he did he didn't mention it.

Now why is a house as tight as he says his is..........did he not have problems with the wood stove operation......but instead had frost problems at his front door?


How about we stick to the subject Keith instead of name calling?

BECAUSE,it was pulling air,,thru his door..that wasnt tightly sealed,,didnt you read that??? or just convienently overlook that sentence???? as Ketih said,,stick to the truth of the matter..not your guessing conjecture....and the FURNACE man,,told him to put in a outside air intake...why??? oh,,hes only a qualified professional...you???? we all know

 

[olyman]

aaron.....you stated that you have two CO2 alarms in the house but didnt say where. You should have one in the basement because co2 is heavy and will collect down there.

I know a couple that have a earth home that only heat with wood. They found out that the house was so tight, they needed outside air for the woodstove to operate properly. When you would run the cloths dryer, they would lose most of their draft. It is easy to check to see if this is your problem, crack a door or window open.

CONJECTURE!!! pure GUESSWORK!!!! and why did del just like it,,and yet hes been arguing against outside air intakes thru this whole thread..They say that pot smoking,,makes your mind go wacky....