Samlock
Addicted to ArboristSite
I always go deep on my face cut I try not too but I always do. Better than shallow I guess.
You know it's too deep when the stem lands on your thigh.
Facecut question.
- Thread starter TreeTangler
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You know it's too deep when the stem lands on your thigh.
jeepyfz450
Addicted to ArboristSite
Around here i use 20-25% undercut. Its hard when cutting small trees a deep undercut wont give you enough space to drive wedges or bore cut if need be.
What is the theory on steep angles and fiberpull? the steeper the angle the better chance the fibers will break rather than pull out?
great info.
steep slope is supposed to break the fibers, and give you more control of the fall... when you have to shallow of a face angle, that gap closes to early and then the stem will lift off the stump literally pulling fiber out to do so, you also lose control prematurely, since your holding wood is now pulled out and therefore only holding onto air.
jeepyfz450
Addicted to ArboristSite
I see. thanks. most of the stuff i cut is cull firewood trees or removals. it gets really tricky with rotten /dead trees when you have little to no holding wood. great thread.
Dave Boyt
ArboristSite Guru
That's pretty much the rule of thumb for the hardwoods I cut, though there are exceptions, like side lean or when you're into hollow or punky logs. Thickness of the hinge is important too, especially when you've got much forward lean. I generally don't like to be cutting the hinge to avoid a barber chair while the tree is on the way down. That's the one situation where I do use a bore cut. I haven't learned how to swing trees, but I've seen it done and it's pretty amazing what they can get those trees to do.
I know its real easy to get into the habit of just burying the tip facing timber that is bigger that the bar. Say cutting 36 inch with a 32. Seems a bit faster than going deeper. A lot of my stumps that where done quickly have the hinge right through the center of the tree. Often times the only pulled wood will be the center, a little half inch round about e inches tall of what used to be a sapling.
Check out D. Douglas Dent's book with reference to when you should do the back cut first (and how). Ron
Dave Boyt
ArboristSite Guru
Professional Timber Falling... found it on Amazon.com for $108. Kinda pricey, but how much would you have to learn in order for it to pay for itself? Couple of other timber felling books on Amazon, too. Helpful, no doubt, but no substitute for experience, as long as no one gets hurt. If you're new to logging and can find a good, experienced logger that will show you the ropes, you've scored big time. Just don't forget to pass it on when you're the experienced "old timer".
redprospector
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dave Boyt
ArboristSite Guru
15 bucks. I can do that. Thanks!
closetoreality
ArboristSite Operative
i have always used the 1/3 of tree rule, and a nice level straight back cut about 2-3 inches above top of face cut. the 2-3 inches (depends of tree size) gives you a nice strong hinge that wont pre-maturely break. and as long as your face cut is nice and steep you won't pull out much tree fibers if any.
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1270d
ArboristSite Guru
As far as learning from the old timers..... some of them are very crude in their felling technique. Some are good. But all of them are still around due to their situational awareness. Work on picking up that from the experienced guys first. Then make nice stumps. If you make your first 1000 stumps perfect, then get. killed, was it worth it? Look up, look around, be aware.
TreeTangler
ArboristSite Guru
Truer words have possibly never been spoken.
jeepyfz450
Addicted to ArboristSite
I am not a pro by any means but i can hang. i just enjoy learning new techniques and hearing how others do it. I learned on the bore cut method (cant for the life of me remember the name of the technique). i used to bore cut every tree but over the last few years i have been trying some new things that save time and work better. I like to broaden my knowledge and increase my skill along the way.
Like i said i am NOT a professional so this is how i used to do it.
Tree size up- Plan the fall check for hazards, lean
Face cut- conventional face cut about 25-30%diameter.
Bore cut- bore in and set my hinge thickness 10% or so on a heathy tree with little lean
Finish bore cut- leave a strap in the back to hold tree
Wedge- drive wedges on either side of strap
Cut strap- cut strap and shut off saw.
Wedge-if tree hasnt started falling yet drive wedges
i am sure i missed some details this was just a quick overview.
The one thing i like about this method is that you can set your hinge thickness without chasing a falling tree. the other thing i like is that the saw is ussually off when you are finishing driving the wedges so you can hear whats going on better and retreat is easier.
what i dont like is that its slow and not nesesary for a lot of trees.
Like i said i am not a pro and dont pretend to be.
Like i said i am NOT a professional so this is how i used to do it.
Tree size up- Plan the fall check for hazards, lean
Face cut- conventional face cut about 25-30%diameter.
Bore cut- bore in and set my hinge thickness 10% or so on a heathy tree with little lean
Finish bore cut- leave a strap in the back to hold tree
Wedge- drive wedges on either side of strap
Cut strap- cut strap and shut off saw.
Wedge-if tree hasnt started falling yet drive wedges
i am sure i missed some details this was just a quick overview.
The one thing i like about this method is that you can set your hinge thickness without chasing a falling tree. the other thing i like is that the saw is ussually off when you are finishing driving the wedges so you can hear whats going on better and retreat is easier.
what i dont like is that its slow and not nesesary for a lot of trees.
Like i said i am not a pro and dont pretend to be.
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VTWoodchuck
ArboristSite Operative
Good info, I like to lurk over here alot to learn.
I'm just a firewood cutter that learned from my father who cut 30-40 cord a year(sold wood on the side). I like to use the "birdmouth" face alot. It helps me when I'm trying to 'thread the needle' and not get a tree hung up. I find that it keeps the holding wood intact until the tree hits the ground. Once she starts over I'm confident that it will go were I intended or at least in the direction of the face cut which are sometimes different.:bang: This usually results in the stem staying attached to the stump too but I don't mind as it can help when bucking. I make my face cut about knee or thigh high then cut the stump low after the tree is down. I don't like being all bent over or squating while cutting as I feel that I can't get away as fast if I need to.
Anyone else use that type of face cut? Is it pointless? I guess a humbolt with a steep undercut would work about the same. Thank you guys for sharing your expertise with us hacks.
I'm just a firewood cutter that learned from my father who cut 30-40 cord a year(sold wood on the side). I like to use the "birdmouth" face alot. It helps me when I'm trying to 'thread the needle' and not get a tree hung up. I find that it keeps the holding wood intact until the tree hits the ground. Once she starts over I'm confident that it will go were I intended or at least in the direction of the face cut which are sometimes different.:bang: This usually results in the stem staying attached to the stump too but I don't mind as it can help when bucking. I make my face cut about knee or thigh high then cut the stump low after the tree is down. I don't like being all bent over or squating while cutting as I feel that I can't get away as fast if I need to.
Anyone else use that type of face cut? Is it pointless? I guess a humbolt with a steep undercut would work about the same. Thank you guys for sharing your expertise with us hacks.
Dave Boyt
ArboristSite Guru
Jeepyfz450, that's my technique 90% of the time. Sounds like you've either taken a directional felling (or Game of Logging) class, or learned from someone who did. A lot of west coast loggers are dismissive of the technique, especially the bore cut, and it takes practice to get it right, but it WORKS! This is especially effective if the tree has any forward lean to it, because it won't start to fall until you cut the strap, which you can do standing up. The only thing I'd add is to make sure you have a clear escape path planned out, at about a 45 degree angle from the opposite direction the tree will fall (hope that makes sense). I'm also big on chaps & logger's helmet. I read recently that the AVERAGE chain saw accident required 110 stitches, and I know a logger who has over 400 from one accident. Keep learning & stay safe!
jeepyfz450
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yeah i have taken some Training when i was in school. I forgot to add that in, an escape route. I always wear a hardhat and need to wear my chaps more........... i know i need to just dont that often.
Any clue what the method is called my mind is failing.....
I don't think that west coast loggers are totally dismissive of the bore cut. Most of us, myself included, will use it when it's called for and recognize that it's another option available to us.
As a general rule the bore cut, in our type of timber, doesn't work as well as some of the other cuts. I've had better luck with the Coos Bay cut on heavy leaners, especially if the tree has any size to it.
I've used the bore cut falling small stuff, 24" and below, and it works fairly well when bucking a long log in a bind.
Use what works. I sure wouldn't want to be limited to just a couple of techniques.
opcorn:
