bucknfeller
Opportunistic Hooligan
Amsoil and E15 @ 250:1
Aftermarket Cylinder... good and bad... the Truth!
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Amsoil and E15 @ 250:1
G
Genius.
Guest
I have a 500 gallon tank of used oil.
I think if you mix it 25:1 instead of 50:1 seeing its used oil, you should be GTG
roostersgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm really rather speechless after taking the time to read through this thread. It's great that a site sponsor is willing to give a 90 day warranty on the AM products he's offering, but another poster displayed a completely unnecessary "injury" picture of a long time contributing member for reasons unknown. The picture I mention is one previously posted by the OP in a "safety" thread. The OP selflessly posted it, against his best interest, in the hopes others would learn from his mistake. To use it for ANY purpose, other than the OP's, is in VERY poor taste in my opinion. I'm all in favor of people being honest and helpful. That picture in this context should have not been used and I'm embarrassed for the poster who included it. Blsnelling certainly deserves far more respect than he was given, even if one disputes some of the articles/criticisms he's posted.
BTW, I'm for using whatever cylinders / parts will work reliably on a saw, but have only found OEM cylinders to perform best, even when fitted with Meteor pistons and Caber rings. Sorry, those always have worked best for me, even though I've only rebuilt a few dozen saws to form my opinion. The AM cylinders have all proven lower in performance in my experience (no porting).
BTW, I'm for using whatever cylinders / parts will work reliably on a saw, but have only found OEM cylinders to perform best, even when fitted with Meteor pistons and Caber rings. Sorry, those always have worked best for me, even though I've only rebuilt a few dozen saws to form my opinion. The AM cylinders have all proven lower in performance in my experience (no porting).
hoeyrd2110
ArboristSite Guru
woah! what a whopper of a thread.
so i must thank randy and randy for pushing these kits into mainstream levels of quality and customer care. i have no qualms if i need a kit from either...just wish i had a big saw i needed one for. hopefully the influx of these quality kits puts a sales hurting on some manufacturers to force thier hand to lower there prices or not sell any. again you guys are making a difference and keeping some saws alive instead of the scrap bin....no matter how you slice it a saw saved is a saw saved. OEM or A/M cyl kit a running saw is better than a scrap or parts saw
so i must thank randy and randy for pushing these kits into mainstream levels of quality and customer care. i have no qualms if i need a kit from either...just wish i had a big saw i needed one for. hopefully the influx of these quality kits puts a sales hurting on some manufacturers to force thier hand to lower there prices or not sell any. again you guys are making a difference and keeping some saws alive instead of the scrap bin....no matter how you slice it a saw saved is a saw saved. OEM or A/M cyl kit a running saw is better than a scrap or parts saw
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tree monkey
Addicted to ArboristSite
well said rep sent
bucknfeller
Opportunistic Hooligan
Fact is, in most cases you can get a PORTED Meteor kit, for about the same money as a stock OEM. Now what were you saying about performance?
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
Next we have an un-know and I'm not going to reveal who, but they are as equally as good! They are slightly cheaper and do have split rings with them and clips that are wire formed. This kit is good! Piston and cylinder are finished very nice, good chamfering, port shape and finish is spot on, so is the piston! This kit will be offered with a replacement set of Caber rings and yes, I'll cover you on this one as well, 90 days against failure if you use the Caber rings... and I will not budge on the rings, you order this kit, the rings are sent automatically! This is a 660 kit.
Good to see a seller confident in his product! You wouldn't know off hand if the 395xp kit will work on a 394xp would you?
roostersgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not sure where you're getting your "ported" AM cylinders, or their cost after modification, but I regularly get NEW OEM cylinders, pistons and rings on Ebay for $159, or less.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STIHL-Pisto...358?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cf256a86
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STIHL-Pisto...355?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cf26127b
Used OEM cylinders for $50, or less, plus Meteor pistons w/Caber rings rings for around $30. Your prices? I've used several different brands of cylinders and have found them to be less powerful than used OEM. Every single time they've felt much less powerful. No. I've not used any sort of dynometer. They've just felt less powerful and less responsive. No further description should be necessary to anyone who has run a single cylinder saw for any length of time.
Stock Meteor P/C kit from reputable dealer $159 + $250 for porting job from most site sponsors. You were saying? I miss something?
BTW, my point in posting on this thread was the injustice done to a long time member who has done more lately to promote this past time than most in the industry, at least that I'm aware of.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STIHL-Pisto...358?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cf256a86
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STIHL-Pisto...355?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cf26127b
Used OEM cylinders for $50, or less, plus Meteor pistons w/Caber rings rings for around $30. Your prices? I've used several different brands of cylinders and have found them to be less powerful than used OEM. Every single time they've felt much less powerful. No. I've not used any sort of dynometer. They've just felt less powerful and less responsive. No further description should be necessary to anyone who has run a single cylinder saw for any length of time.
Stock Meteor P/C kit from reputable dealer $159 + $250 for porting job from most site sponsors. You were saying? I miss something?
BTW, my point in posting on this thread was the injustice done to a long time member who has done more lately to promote this past time than most in the industry, at least that I'm aware of.
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almondgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
Did you mean Meteor pistons/Caber rings for...........
"Used OEM cylinders for $50, or less, plus Meteor cylinders s/Caber rings rings for around $30."
roostersgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes. I had to correct my post. Meteor pistons w/Caber rings for around $30. The used OEM cylinders can be had for around $50. I've not used OEM pistons yet, as I believe there can't possibly be $60 difference in performance for the added price. My guess, but a well thought out one, at least financially.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
The key with aftermarket P&C's is testing, testing and testing and checking, checking, and more checking.
Just because a kit pops out the box looking nice doesn't actually mean it's going to be reliable.
I know this has been run to death but here I go again...
For example I sent kits out to certain guys for free or at cost to determine how reliable they'll be on saws. Had some failures along the way so therefore sourced kits from different suppliers that have had no problems.
Here is why kits also need testing...
I didn't know anybody with an MS460 for testing so sold some BB kits on eBay anyway and had them hook a ring and bust the top out of a piston. That was my fault for not testing them properly. The kits looked fine!
Like Mark said a replacement warranty is great however labour, time, and the good old headf**k factor isn't covered if something does go wrong. Not to mention that certain customers will crack the sads big time because they haven't had their saw returned in a timely fashion. Even worse if it dies on them in use or for a paid job.
In an extreme case can you imagine the legal liability if a saw hooks a ring in the middle of a backcut on a large dangerous tree and something bad happens? Technically you could actually be held liable if it was shown that you hadn't taken all available measures to test and check that kit.
Offering a warranty is great and the fact that Randy is now checking kits prior to sale is also a big plus. The fact is that you can't let your guard down and "assume" that every kit will be finished well so they do need to be checked thoroughly before sale.
I'm sure Mahle etc have bad kits coming off the production line too however their quality control is done in house whereas with AM the seller has to take responsibility for some of the quality control too.
Like one eyed Stihl and Husky owners the fact remains that no matter what information is presented certain people will plant their feet firmly on the OEM side of the argument regardless of what facts are available.
Just because a kit pops out the box looking nice doesn't actually mean it's going to be reliable.
I know this has been run to death but here I go again...
For example I sent kits out to certain guys for free or at cost to determine how reliable they'll be on saws. Had some failures along the way so therefore sourced kits from different suppliers that have had no problems.
Here is why kits also need testing...
I didn't know anybody with an MS460 for testing so sold some BB kits on eBay anyway and had them hook a ring and bust the top out of a piston. That was my fault for not testing them properly. The kits looked fine!
Like Mark said a replacement warranty is great however labour, time, and the good old headf**k factor isn't covered if something does go wrong. Not to mention that certain customers will crack the sads big time because they haven't had their saw returned in a timely fashion. Even worse if it dies on them in use or for a paid job.
In an extreme case can you imagine the legal liability if a saw hooks a ring in the middle of a backcut on a large dangerous tree and something bad happens? Technically you could actually be held liable if it was shown that you hadn't taken all available measures to test and check that kit.
Offering a warranty is great and the fact that Randy is now checking kits prior to sale is also a big plus. The fact is that you can't let your guard down and "assume" that every kit will be finished well so they do need to be checked thoroughly before sale.
I'm sure Mahle etc have bad kits coming off the production line too however their quality control is done in house whereas with AM the seller has to take responsibility for some of the quality control too.
Like one eyed Stihl and Husky owners the fact remains that no matter what information is presented certain people will plant their feet firmly on the OEM side of the argument regardless of what facts are available.
bucknfeller
Opportunistic Hooligan
Just looked at Fleabay for a couple OEM cylinders for saws that I am working on right now. No dice. If you have time to wait around in hopes that one might come up Good For You. I don't. When I need something, I need it soon. So for me that means going to the dealer and it's going to cost well over $160. As far as buying used, not me! Learned that lesson. Unless it's from a reputable member here I wouldn't even consider it. I'll take my chances on the new Meteor kit with the 90 day warranty. Watsonr just posted his price here for Meteor at $149.99. I have bolted those Meteor kits on right out of the box and been very pleased with them. Did you not see Brad's 046 Mahle vs Meteor comparison???
BTW, You won't see me getting all emotional over the bickerings of member's no matter how long they've been here.
tree monkey
Addicted to ArboristSite
? for the op
lets say i buy a p&c from you and the piston fails/ breaks and a piece of the skirt falls into the bottom end and destroys the case and crank.
are you going to buy me a new oem case and crank?
i comend you for what your trying to do, but you need to be real clear about your warrenty
i've been a saw dealer for over 30 years and never use am parts.
my name is on every thing that goes out the door, and failure is not an option.
i have yet to see a am cylinder last more then 500 hours
i have seen many oem cylinders last 4000 hours
my best wishes to you in your indever
scott
lets say i buy a p&c from you and the piston fails/ breaks and a piece of the skirt falls into the bottom end and destroys the case and crank.
are you going to buy me a new oem case and crank?
i comend you for what your trying to do, but you need to be real clear about your warrenty
i've been a saw dealer for over 30 years and never use am parts.
my name is on every thing that goes out the door, and failure is not an option.
i have yet to see a am cylinder last more then 500 hours
i have seen many oem cylinders last 4000 hours
my best wishes to you in your indever
scott
roostersgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
Saw parts aside, my point was it was entirely against normal decorum to post the "injured" pictures, period. You disagree? If so, fine. I'll consider you in the same light I consider the other, negatively. Happy? I'm not emotional either, I just have enough time to wait until they list them at those prices, which they regularly do for "pro" level saws, at least Stihls. See the links I posted? I can get then for 260, 360's 440 etc......
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Pics
Yes apparently you missed the whole thing. You're trying to say an OEM stock cylinder makes more power than a ported aftermarket one. I guess all the guys should have talked to you before they went to all that work on some of the buildoff saws. What happens when that top end you bought on the bay blows up in two months? Is the guy gonna send you a new one?
Do what you want but don't try to tell everyone else their way is wrong.
And after all the crap that's been slung here in the last couple of months, the picture of Brads busted head offended you the most? Really?
