woodguy105
ArboristSite Guru
Qu'est-ce que c'est... farmers cut??
Dangerous Tree Comes Down
- Thread starter Bushmans
- Start date
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Wasn't talking about the subject being a cliche. Some of the replies are, including my own. Bushmans, if you can't handle criticism, don't post a video of a scary, badly done, hack job. That's what it was.
Now, if you really wanted "tips" the place to post it would have been the Forestry Logging Forum. That's where a few genuine "pro" fallers and loggers still exist.
Now, if you really wanted "tips" the place to post it would have been the Forestry Logging Forum. That's where a few genuine "pro" fallers and loggers still exist.
zogger
Tree Freak
He has gotten some good advice, etc here so far. Some serious criticism and alternatives have been offered.
F& L, from a firewood guys perspective, is just asking for abuse.
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There is a reason he put it here, it's because he wanted to. Last I checked that was his choice to make and maybe he expected more help here. I'm bettin a lot of us wood cutters don't go anywhere near the Forestry Logging Forum just for that reason. We're firewood cutters not guys would cut trees for a living. Don't worry I'm sure Bushman has no plans of moving anywhere else.
Here's some good falling except don't do what he's doing on the last tree--walk in front of it. This guy is the real deal. There's lots of wedging and he's making trees go the way they are not inclined to go--they are backleaners.
Vermonster
ArboristSite Operative
You're kidding right? Trying to compare falling super straight little hand planted evergreens on flat land to EAB infected trees on undulating hard wood forests. That's just silly.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
My, look at those nice, straight trees, clear woods with wide spaces and lack of underbrush & obstacles. Sure doesn't look anything like PA!
Conditions vary, as do the purposes of the people cutting wood. There's no way most home firewood gatherers are going to have the skills, experience or equipment that professional loggers do. That doesn't mean there's nothing for a firewood guy to learn from professional loggers, but neither is it necessary to gain that level of proficiency to be safe and effective.
Conditions vary, as do the purposes of the people cutting wood. There's no way most home firewood gatherers are going to have the skills, experience or equipment that professional loggers do. That doesn't mean there's nothing for a firewood guy to learn from professional loggers, but neither is it necessary to gain that level of proficiency to be safe and effective.
Bushmans
Smoke Dragon Herder
Its not about ME handling criticism. I'm not the guy cutting down the tree! I simply wanted to hear opinions on cutting this tree. For God's sake man I would never post a video of myself cutting down a tree and let every Tom, **** and Harry arm chair my awful cutting techniques. I prefer to cut em when they're already on the ground. I'm a wood BURNER not a wood cutter! LOL.
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Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
It's what some here call it when the back cut is sloping.
Usually done by folks who realize they don't want the tree to slip off the stump and come back at them...but don't realize the place to prevent that from happening is making a proper notch at the front.
Or because they just know that some cuts are angled... They just don't know which ones and why. So they slope all 3, or 4 or however many sloping cuts from all different sides and angles it takes to get a tree on the ground.
Dead punky rotten trees should go to the grave alone. They don't need help with that.
plan A was in trouble just as top face cut was made. should have stopped then.
That tree committed on face cut and stalled. Violated rule 1. No, make that rule 0.
Lucky the cutter wasn't bombed from all that dead top (the stuff that shattered on the crash)
If it was a soild tree,
0. Not swamped out
1. Face and back cutts were made in line of fire, not safe side
2. Shallow faces can be re-trued. If needed.
3. Face cuts missed. see 2. Clean em up.
4. Too long to make 3 cuts.
5. Stay with the back cut until that stem is fully committed, bail on your clear exit, not stright back
6. don't go back and forth looking for trouble
7. forget the "chillin by the stump" as it tips
jmo
Nuzzy
Trail Gnome
Lots of good points already made, and yes, a tree can always be left standing if too dangerous. If it were me, I would cut in the most solid looking part I could find within a comfortable height range. If the crack was big and through, I would try to bind if I had the stuff available. I'd try for a standard depth face and get that face wedge out before continuing. Considering the tree was moving forward into the face (hence not needing to drive wedges), I'd put on the longest bar with the sharpest chain on the biggest saw I had and try to get through a level (and slightly raised from face) backcut as quick as I could, hopefully keeping a bit of space between me and the tree (as in, not dawged in right up next to it). I'd be listening for any crack or pop, assuming something might blow out in the trunk, and be ready to jump/dive/run/whatever. I don't make it a practice to dawdle around danger trees, so I'd be making chips fly rather than stopping and starting over and over.
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
IMO, any advice given in this thread, besides you and your bud NOT touching that tree, or any like it. . . Is BAD advice.
That tree was waaaay above the pay grade of anyone I saw/heard in that video. You don't challenge Jeff Gordon to a race, when you just got your license from the DMV. These kind of trees are man killers, not "Neat practice trees".
Sorry to be blunt, but you seem to be fairly lackadaisical about the video and the experience -- which points to your inexperience.
Here's a picture of a snag that tried to pound my head into the ground last fall. It was burning 10' up, and the IC trainee called me on the radio to come drop it. By the time I got below it to hike up, it snapped off and was fix'n to whack-o-mole my butt. Running and luck were on my side that afternoon.
I was part of a saw team cutting snags on a fire. It was on thick, steep ground, with more hazards than I care to talk about. And I can tell you, I wouldn't have put steel to wood on the snag in your video, just for the sake of firewood.
Take this advice as constructive.
~Nate
That tree was waaaay above the pay grade of anyone I saw/heard in that video. You don't challenge Jeff Gordon to a race, when you just got your license from the DMV. These kind of trees are man killers, not "Neat practice trees".
Sorry to be blunt, but you seem to be fairly lackadaisical about the video and the experience -- which points to your inexperience.
Here's a picture of a snag that tried to pound my head into the ground last fall. It was burning 10' up, and the IC trainee called me on the radio to come drop it. By the time I got below it to hike up, it snapped off and was fix'n to whack-o-mole my butt. Running and luck were on my side that afternoon.
I was part of a saw team cutting snags on a fire. It was on thick, steep ground, with more hazards than I care to talk about. And I can tell you, I wouldn't have put steel to wood on the snag in your video, just for the sake of firewood.
Take this advice as constructive.
~Nate
Nuzzy
Trail Gnome
I don't disagree at all.
But, he did ask opinions on how others would get it down. If no one shared thoughts or experiences, it would make it pretty tough to learn. Hopefully the take away is recognizing the severity of the situation, and that leaving trees is perfectly valid.
Cat faced, broken, and rotten based trees (and dead snags) may seem like great fire wood opportunities because they're not healthy; unfortunately they're often the most dangerous to cut. If a sloping backcut is tucked away in one's arsenal of tricks, the aforementioned trees should really be strictly off limits...
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
Therein lies the problem with the internet -- AS or any other forum for that matter -- is the wrong place to learn snag falling. Snags are reserved for Alpha Timberbeasts for a reason. And the reason they're considered the cream of the crop timber fallers, is because they're still alive and know when to say no.
Telling Bushmans to not do it, is the only sound advice that can be given on here.
BTW, the video posted earlier is of my pard Cody. He's one hell of a faller; so much so, that I don't feel I'm qualified to lace his boots. That don't mean I copy what I see him do in a video, cause I know he's a badass. I wait until we can be working together, or just out cut'n for sport. There's no replacement for displacement, and there's no replacement for 1 on 1 instruction.
Happy New Year fellas -- make it a safe one!
.
rms61moparman
Addicted to ArboristSite
The first thing I would have done would have been to undercut the face cut, that way the wedge would drop out when freed or pinched out (maybe) in this case.
I cut very few higher than my waist unless it is necessary to aid in stump removal.
The other thing I would have done, is after the tree started moving during the back cut and stopped, I'd have gone to the house and had a cup of coffee and checked AS for a while, or gone OUT OF THE AREA to another tree or cleanup and let it determine if it wanted to go ahead and fall. They often do, especially if there is any breeze or bright sun on a cold day.
Youens just flame away, I cut on a farm that doesn't belong to me and have cut several that I wasn't enthused about but the farmer needed them down. Sometimes you have to do that to maintain your welcome.
Mike
I cut very few higher than my waist unless it is necessary to aid in stump removal.
The other thing I would have done, is after the tree started moving during the back cut and stopped, I'd have gone to the house and had a cup of coffee and checked AS for a while, or gone OUT OF THE AREA to another tree or cleanup and let it determine if it wanted to go ahead and fall. They often do, especially if there is any breeze or bright sun on a cold day.
Youens just flame away, I cut on a farm that doesn't belong to me and have cut several that I wasn't enthused about but the farmer needed them down. Sometimes you have to do that to maintain your welcome.
Mike
Back at ya, Nate. Hope the coming year is good to you.
Best of 2014 to rest of AS
Best of 2014 to rest of AS
Vermonster
ArboristSite Operative
Walk away from that one and leave it for the pileated woodpeckers. Wild life snags have value.
