Brand new Logger! Start felling Monday!

[matthew sparks]

I joined this site last year and you guys gave me some great advice as I was cutting pines for the log cabins I am building. I just needed to know enough not to get hurt while working alone.

A nice man offered to take me under his wing. He told me to bring my saw and he would contract me out on hardwoods here in KY. It seems to be a small scale operation with a skidder and a feller to each section of a job. I want the experience and this guy has been in the woods 37 years but he said he would show me what I didn't know and it will not be a high pressure situation.

Now to my question...........I am not that worried about what I am getting paid but he pays per tree, not board ft. I had never heard of this. This is all hardwoods and will be 18" to 28" from what I understand. He said most of his cutters do at least 40 trees a day and he pays $5.00 a tree. So after I settle in I should make at least $200.00 a day. Does this sound correct? I have a 391 and 441 stihl.

I just know this is the place to ask the questions and God knows I will have many more as I am learning. I cut down several hundred softwoods alone and clueless last year and survived but this is the first time I have entered the commercial side of it.

Best Regards,
Matthew Sparks

 

[056kid]

200.00 is better than what I got cutting on the east coast!

 

[northmanlogging]

Look up, often...

Talk to your skidder op, see where He/she/it would like the trees laid out and do your best to park them there.

Look up.

Leave the 391 at home, its a fine saw but you'll be a little out gunned, the 441 will do just fine.

Ask lots of questions and keep an open mind, it may sound crazy at first but then it just might work really good. And if the boss man is all hollering and screaming, just remember dude has been around loud machinery for 37 years, thats probably just how he talks... Swearing is part of the job too.

Look up.

Take your time, work on being smooth and planning your cuts, speed comes with practice. Walk your strip and get a feel for the lay of the land, talk with the skidder op at this time, this helps with planning yer cuts, figure on which trees go first and work on a nice opening etc, but don't get stuck with the one plan, be flexible.

And last but not least, 200 a day would be a bit low for out here, but I couldn't comment for KY, if it sounds like a decent wage then gopher it. Fairly ok wage if he's paing for LI, insurance, et. al.

 

[matthew sparks]

Thanks so much for the advice. I am trying to understand the looking up so much. I cut a lot of Loblolly trees last summer and just remember moving back fast when the tree started making a cracking sound. I don't mind getting yelled at. I have been on the other side of the food chain in commercial fishing and always yell at employees every winter. Also I know I don't know what I am doing so I would consider yelling acceptable.

 

[Red Elm]

Your looking up to hopefully keep yourself alive. Here are just some of what you are looking for:

Windowmakers, dead limbs that can fall on you while your cutting. Intertwined limbs. Are there limbs from other trees touching any limbs in your tree . They can cause a hang-up or swing your tree as it falls.
Vines, vines and more vines!
This is probably the greatest danger I face falling hardwoods. A vine can cause a hang-up, cause your tree to swing as it falls, pull a smaller tree over as it falls and then if the vine breaks release the smaller tree to whip back, and the most dangerous of all, rip a limb off the other tree and hurl it thru the air at 100mph!

You should also be looking up to judge your lean on the tree, weight distribution and any wind that might effect the fall.

LISTEN to the older more experienced fallers. Treat them with respect, but dont kiss their azz. Most will want to help you instead of help carry you out. Don't be a smart azz!!!

GOOD LUCK!!!

PS. Some days I could have 40 on the ground and bucked by noon, other times would take 3 days. All depends on the wood and the ground it's growing on. $200/day for starting pretty good here.

 

[1270d]

Are you being paid to fell, limb and top? seems like a decent wage if you dont have to buck logs. A good faller should be able to put down 75 to 100 stringers a day, depending on crown size of course.

 

[HuskStihl]

My only concern with the $5 per tree is that you will wind up putting productivitity ahead of safety before u'r ready. See if you can negotiate a minimum salary while u'r learning. Bring wedges, take u'r time reading the trees, make sure u'r faces are cleaned out, and definitely watch the vines. They suck. Good luck!

 

[treeslayer2003]

200 for 40 sticks is good................you will want more saw later on if ya stay in 28" oak much. listen to the old guys and do what they say as far as how to cut so ya don't bust um..................a bad or new faller can cost us more than than yer worth on fiber pull or cracked logs, grade is every thing in hardwood.
find a lay and stick with it, don't fight every tree. its better to have um all mostly the same than have one of 5 wrong, that slows the skidder awful.
cut any dam vine ya can........they'll kill you. good luck.

 

[jwade]

Your looking up to hopefully keep yourself alive. Here are just some of what you are looking for:

Windowmakers, dead limbs that can fall on you while your cutting. Intertwined limbs. Are there limbs from other trees touching any limbs in your tree . They can cause a hang-up or swing your tree as it falls.
Vines, vines and more vines!
This is probably the greatest danger I face falling hardwoods. A vine can cause a hang-up, cause your tree to swing as it falls, pull a smaller tree over as it falls and then if the vine breaks release the smaller tree to whip back, and the most dangerous of all, rip a limb off the other tree and hurl it thru the air at 100mph!

You should also be looking up to judge your lean on the tree, weight distribution and any wind that might effect the fall.

LISTEN to the older more experienced fallers. Treat them with respect, but dont kiss their azz. Most will want to help you instead of help carry you out. Don't be a smart azz!!!

GOOD LUCK!!!

PS. Some days I could have 40 on the ground and bucked by noon, other times would take 3 days. All depends on the wood and the ground it's growing on. $200/day for starting pretty good here.

WOW COULD NOT HAVE BEEN SAID ANY BETTER. LISTEN TO WHAT RED ELM SAID YOU WILL DO FINE.

 

[slowp]

I'm not a faller.

My addition to this conversation would be to check out your employer and make sure he pays his help and pays on time. When I'd see an outfit that constantly was changing people, the reason was that they fudged on the wages.

 

[northmanlogging]

yup look for widow makers, etc. Don't have to fight vines much out here, just in the residential stuff I get sometimes, but they are still an ass pain.

And in the word of Randymac run from em all. Make sure you have escape paths, nothing worse than needing to boogie and having nowhere to go.

Best of luck to ya.

 

[matthew sparks]

This is such a great website. I logged back in and saw so much great advice. Thanks so much for the help. I have always worried about limbs stuck together of two trees being an issue and people felling both at the same time, but I never really considered the vines. I can remember climbing a lot of vines when I was a kid. Thats about 30 miles from the logging site that I have yet to see. He said we have a few days on this site and then he will be moving everything 4 miles down the road to another site so there is no telling what I am getting into.

This is a reputable company that pays every friday and I have heard they are good guys to work for. He said he doesn't expect me to be a rock star when I go out there. He said he has his fellers cut until they don't want to cut anymore and then they can go home. We have had an enormous amount of rain since early spring here and he is behind. He also said that they stayed small when everything went bad and he survived when some companies couldn't they have trucks, skidders and some chainsaws. None of the fancy equipment I see on that show Axe Men or what any of you guys may be running.

He said accidents happen, but he will do everything in his power to make sure I don't do anything neglectful enough to cause harm on myself that could be avoided.

Every company around here is hiring right now. This guy isn't the biggest, doesn't have the shiniest equipment, but seems to teach people. He fired a feller that he was paying for 100+ trees everyday because he was like a crackhead running around cutting down trees. He splits everything off where nobody was in anyone's way but this guy was just such a danger to himself that he said it didn't matter how much money he was making him, that it just wasn't worth it.

I have money. I'm not rich, but I could go buy a skidder and a grapple truck tomorrow through financing. I am hoping this is the guy is what teaches me what I need to know to advance in this business, but I tell my kids to start at the bottom and learn and be humble. So now I find myself doing the same thing.

Thanks again for all the advice. I may never see a grapevine where I am at or you guys may have saved my life.

 

[1270d]

I am hoping this is the guy is what teaches me what I need to know to advance in this business, but I tell my kids to start at the bottom and learn and be humble. So now I find myself doing the same thing.

That says a lot about you. Excellent attitude.

 

[matthew sparks]

Im looking through a lot of threads on first aid right now. These are KY loggers. My concern is IF something happens. I don't think anyone wears chaps, hardhats, etc. These good ole boys out here seem to think they are outlaws. When I say this I am talking about 90% of the logging companies in my area. Man you guys have a lot of information on threads that I will probably be reading all day.

 

[Red Elm]

YOU WEAR YOUR HARD HAT OR STAY OUT OF THE TIMBER! PERIOD!!
You need your chaps and earplugs too, but I know new guys feel like a baby if no one else is wearing them. Screw what the others think. I wear my hardhat, chaps and earplugs no matter what others think. They are MY legs, ears, noggin and life. Several years ago I had a small widowmaker about 2-2-1/2" and 4-5' long fall and hit me across the shoulders. Not a very big limb but it knocked me to my knees. I was looking down at the kerf and chip flow and had a helmet on. If I would have had my head up and a soft cap on could have killed me. And I had looked that tree over good. Have no idea where it was.

 

[matthew sparks]

Is there anywhere to buy chaps n short notice considering I will be in the woods in 18 hours? I don't know what outlet to look for them. Thanks so much for addressing what I assumed with CAPS. I probably need that kick in the ass. I have to realize just because their limbs and are alive doesn't mean I couldn't die on day one.

 

[Easttnlogger1]

This is my first post on this forum, but seems like all the guys have given u good advice. As treeslayer said listen to the guys who have their time in the woods that you will be working with.

I worked for a tree service for 2 years we cut right of way for the local electric company. That's where I learned the basics of how to cut and all of that good stuff. I've been logging for right at 2 years now and I'm no pro by no means.

As for the pay scale your talking about, it will be a while before u can cut and trim 40 to 50 trees a day esp if ur in 28 to 30" oak. There's alot of trimming on some oak sometimes u get lucky and there ain't to much. I think u would be better off workin for a hourly rate for a while If he will agree to that.

As for the chaps and hard hat, surely the guy your working for will have some stuff laying around u can use till u can get ur own. A hard hat is a must! Anytime your in the woods working u need one on. If he's got insurance I'm sure you will have to wear chaps and hard hat.


Good luck!

 

[Red Elm]

Take plenty of water and a full dinner bucket-you are about to experience true hunger and sound sleeping, oh and sore muscles!!

 

[matthew sparks]

I am very concerned about the heat and already have water ready to go and some salt tablets. As far as hard work Nov- April I own a commercial Caviar fishing business and I pull 50 300 ft gill nets from the bottom of the river and they are full of trees, anchors boulders, etc., that I don't have a skidder or winch to help me pull to the surface. I am no stranger to hard work. The timing just sucks that I am starting on the hottest day we have had this year. I was told to drink 8 ounces of water every 15 minutes by an athlete that runs out west in 100 degree temps.

If I don't pass out I will let you guys know how many trees I get cut on the first day. haha. If the hills aren't steep I think I will be okay. If it is straight up and down I will be screwed as far as fatigue goes in this heat. It is probably why he is needing help right now.

 

[bnmc98]

I get paid $25 an hour and I get a ride to the site every day in the work truck. My saws, my fuel, my oil, my tools , bla bla bla. So on a good day I get 200 a day. but, My commute is 5hrs a day in the truck, so 8's are less common. If you can get 40 down in a day and collect 200 a day steadily you are doing better than me on the income.

I don't post on here much but here's some things I can suggest out of what I've learned and don't take it as gospel.

- Don't be frustrated if you aren't putting 40 on the ground in a day to start with. especially if you have to make logs out of them and not just dump them. That's part of the learning process.
Be grateful that he has already told you it is not a pressure situation, that should take some pressure off.

- If i were you I would make sure and listen to everything the guy has to say, be teachable, which it sounds like you are, and do it HIS way as long as its safe. he is paying you to do it the way HE wants.
and there will be time to develop you own techniques and comfort after you have some experience under your belt

- Getting a tree on the ground is relatively easy but it will take a while for you to learn how to walk into a stand and determine which way you want to take them and how to lay them so they can come out of there for the skidder without making your life hell as well. Time in the trenches, and, like northman said make a plan with whoever is running the skidder, or the show, at that time and pay attention to WHY they are saying the things they are saying.

- Be prepared to make many mistakes and don't get down on yourself, just make sure they are not safety mistakes. ask many questions and don't be afraid to communicate, the guy knows you are green.

- bring your other saw along with you even though its not as gutsy, you may make some learning mistakes with your main saw and unless they have one you can borrow, you will make no money and be out a day of production if you damage your saw or it breaks down and you don't know how to fix it yet. something is better than nothing.

- learn the difference between fear and wisdom, fear can kill you but wisdom can keep you safe

congratulations on the job opportunity I wish you the best.

another thing I'm sure you have taken care of, but it sounds like you are going to become a independent contractor? make sure you have all your ducks in a row with what your state requires and make sure you have enough insurance (on your life as well) we are going through a deal here right now with some guys that do some trucking for us that also log their own job that skirted this issue. one of them got hurt while being paid under the table and had to go to the ER, well lets just say he didnt have insurance and work comp got involved and now bad news
and... make sure you know what you can write off if you dont already