Latest EPA Wood Stove News
- Thread starter huntindog1
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lindnova
ArboristSite Operative
Lots of information to look at. The "Heated Up" blog article has some strong comments against wood burning claiming the government is 'in bed' with the industry. Apparently wood is just terrible and ruining the air. http://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/20...&utm_campaign=Oct+Newsletter&utm_medium=email
Even my outdoor furnace with some smoke signals likely puts out less particulate than drilling, transporting and refining propane or oil. It definitely puts out less CO.
Even my outdoor furnace with some smoke signals likely puts out less particulate than drilling, transporting and refining propane or oil. It definitely puts out less CO.
huntindog1
ArboristSite Operative
They are banning the current type of outdoor wood boilers that put out alot of smoke. Now there are some newer types that are like smoke free. They wont be banning the stove you own now just the ones that they are allowing to be sold from now on. There was one page of a separate EPA website that people were making comments about the wood stoves and the smoke and basically wanting wood stoves banned.
We all need to be aware the opposition is growing and try to burn a clean as possible using good seasoned wood.
We all need to be aware the opposition is growing and try to burn a clean as possible using good seasoned wood.
lindnova
ArboristSite Operative
Yes I agree. I do use dry wood in the outdoor furnace. The first couple years before I was educated I burned wet box elder and oak or whatever and it smoked plumes all the time.
Electrostatic precipitators on outdoor furnaces? I don't think so. I think the newer gasifiers are pretty good though.
Even the smoke dragons can burn pretty clean if operated properly on good dry wood.
I put a PE Spectrum (EPA approved) wood stove in last year as supplemental, power outage heat and it does burn very clean.
It is hard to educate people on dry wood especially when most of the sellers 'seasoned' wood is not really dry. I see several houses on my way home that regularly have a plume of smoke coming out of the chimney.
zogger
Tree Freak
Proly be a study on the environmental impact of burning ebola victims soon..
harrumph..
The story down about Vermont, geez loweez, some wood outfit there, Treehugger farms, claims they sold 5 THOUSAND cord last winter
harrumph..
The story down about Vermont, geez loweez, some wood outfit there, Treehugger farms, claims they sold 5 THOUSAND cord last winter
Ummmm..... you better do a little more research and reading. Although you won't be forced to remove your existing (in use) stove, once it's certification expires you won't be allowed to move it, sell it, or even give it to your daughter. In the definitions section of the proposed EPA regulations, the word "sale" is defined as any transfer of ownership... any transfer. And yes, those proposed EPA regulations do state that appliances currently in use are exempted, keep in mind that once the stove is uninstalled, it is no longer currently in use. If you sell your home you will not be able to (legally) move your stove to the new home, and you will not be able to leave it for the new owner of your old home... it will have to be removed and scrapped. If you buy a new stove, you will not be able to (legally) sell the old one, or give it to your daughter, or even install it in your hunting shack.
I don't remember offhand if it is Oregon or Washington that currently has near identical regulation... but you can bet your butt the proposed EPA regulation was influenced by it.
There ain't anything good for the economy, manufacturers, retailers or the consumer in those proposed regulations... it will cost us all. And working some sort of behind-the-scenes "consensus" like was done with the NESCAUM, WESTAR, and HPBA meeting, in some (so called) attempt to head of litigation, is nothing but fluff... it's symbolic, nothing more.
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Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I'm of two minds, in that some places are simply not appropriate for wood burning, and some people are too irresponsible, and this creates real problems for others. Also, newer technology stoves like the ones I have have been a huge reduction in emissions and the amount of wood required. My home is 185 years old, and if they'd have had stoves like I do now it would have vastly decreased their required labor and time gathering wood, as well as increasing the heat output. Why not do it better if possible - and it is possible. Frankly, the secondary burn "EPA" stoves I have are good enough - and no matter how much cleaner stoves are made it still won't be appropriate in densely populated towns, etc. Let local governments decide if they want to go beyond the present limits. But at the same time I don't see why other types of wood burning appliances should be exempt.
Still, the comments on the one article bugged me. I'd bet a good beer that many of those who believe wood burning appliances are evil have not done a blessed thing to reduce their own use of fossil fuels, and the damages that comes from burning them, other than maybe buying a Prius and some CFL bulbs. I'd like to see them put a fraction of the effort into it as I have. Stopping that 1000 gallons of heating oil my home used to consume every year is a bigger positive impact than any other single thing I could do.
I'm irritated by people who are still focused only on directly toxic emissions and have yet to comprehend the problems of CO2, while continuing to maintain their modern fossil fuel powered lifestyles. There's not going to be a one-size-fits-all solution to the energy problem - we cannot all burn wood, but in some areas it is a perfectly viable response, and a major improvement over oil, coal or gas.
Still, the comments on the one article bugged me. I'd bet a good beer that many of those who believe wood burning appliances are evil have not done a blessed thing to reduce their own use of fossil fuels, and the damages that comes from burning them, other than maybe buying a Prius and some CFL bulbs. I'd like to see them put a fraction of the effort into it as I have. Stopping that 1000 gallons of heating oil my home used to consume every year is a bigger positive impact than any other single thing I could do.
I'm irritated by people who are still focused only on directly toxic emissions and have yet to comprehend the problems of CO2, while continuing to maintain their modern fossil fuel powered lifestyles. There's not going to be a one-size-fits-all solution to the energy problem - we cannot all burn wood, but in some areas it is a perfectly viable response, and a major improvement over oil, coal or gas.
Let local governments decide if they want any limits at all... including abolishing present limits.
It is not the job of Federal Government to protect us from ourselves... in fact, federal government is strictly forbidden to do so.
That simple fact is the only one that should matter... or apply.
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It is not the job of Federal Government to protect us from ourselves... in fact, federal government is strictly forbidden to do so.
That simple fact is the only one that should matter... or apply.
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There are no checks or balances on the EPA, It is free to do or implement whatever regulations it wants to. There is no congressional oversight nor does any reg the EPA comes up with need to be run through congress to become law. And that is the problem with the EPA in a nut shell ( particularly the nuts inside the shell) What is particularly good for Kommiefornia or Washington State is not always the best answer for the rest of the country. Both of these states have unique air quality problems due to their proxcimity to the Rocky mountain range and density of population centers in conjunction with the air flow patterns.
nathon918
Addicted to ArboristSite
I use to drive by Treehugger's almost every weekend, their outfit don't look very big, but they sell a **** ton of wood, mostly because its kiln dried, so they have dry wood year round... they maybe have 100 cord between logs and splits in their processing area at any given time, so it don't look like much, but that gets delivered and new logs get dropped off daily. it aint cheap either...
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I know that when I think of Congress, checks and balances and responsible oversight are the first things that come to mind. I'm quite sure that if this issue were set before their competent leadership we'd all be delighted at the result.
Or at least amused, if approached with the right attitude
Like any government agency the EPA started out small with good intentions but ballooned into a corrupt overpaid branch that has no control and runs amuck with very little oversight . Why can't our government just focus on getting us our mail and running the military . Every area has it's unique problems and pollution and air quality should be overseen at the local level
You start at the local and state level...
In Missouri a bill was introduced that pretty much blocks state and local EPA officials from enforcing and new regulations on wood-fired appliances. One state won't remove the EPA's teeth... but what if 20, or 30 states passed similar legislation?? See, the EPA cannot enforce their regulations without cooperation from the state and local governments. State and local governments need only nullify the EPA's power... nothing more. The problem is we have too many "welfare" states... states that receive more from the feds than they send the feds. Things like ethanol subsidies, farm subsidies, road subsidies, and lord-knows-what else. End the "welfare state" and the EPA has no leverage... we're all being screwed, but only a few can see it.
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pro94lt
Addicted to ArboristSite
Do you vote? Tell your neighbors tell your friends, hell run for local office I want my country back
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
It's one thing to stir the pot.
It's another to mix citations and fantasy.
They sure do:
and also:
Which they then combine into phrases such as this one:
While addressing the still permissible sale by homeowners:
So saying:
is pure poppycock. Since the proposed rule specifically (if minimally) address resale by non-commercial owners by saying it's OK if they've lost the manual to still sell the appliance without it, while qualifying every section that restricts sales with "No commercial owner is permitted..."
What is prohibited under the proposed rule for everyone, commercial as wel as non-commercial owners, is disabling the emission control systems that are built into the appliances. The sale, moving, storing and re-installing later, etc, etc. by those not engaged in the business of wood burning appliances is allowed.
I would have to dig deeper than I wish to tonight to see whether it would affect the folks who have a side business refurbishing and selling old stoves, or how it would affect dealers who offer services to move and reinstall an existing appliance for an existing owner.
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...-heaters-new-residential-hydronic-heaters-and
It's another to mix citations and fantasy.
They sure do:
and also:
Which they then combine into phrases such as this one:
While addressing the still permissible sale by homeowners:
So saying:
is pure poppycock. Since the proposed rule specifically (if minimally) address resale by non-commercial owners by saying it's OK if they've lost the manual to still sell the appliance without it, while qualifying every section that restricts sales with "No commercial owner is permitted..."
What is prohibited under the proposed rule for everyone, commercial as wel as non-commercial owners, is disabling the emission control systems that are built into the appliances. The sale, moving, storing and re-installing later, etc, etc. by those not engaged in the business of wood burning appliances is allowed.
I would have to dig deeper than I wish to tonight to see whether it would affect the folks who have a side business refurbishing and selling old stoves, or how it would affect dealers who offer services to move and reinstall an existing appliance for an existing owner.
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...-heaters-new-residential-hydronic-heaters-and
Oxford
ArboristSite Operative
Well, this ought to be good....
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