661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[blsnelling]

I think your way over complicating #1. I believe that when you find the best for one saw, it will be best for the majority. Furthermore, I think you're splitting hairs to test more than 32:1, 40:1, & 50:1.

I think you could safely assume that any of these synthetic ester oils will give similar protection to H1R. To focus sole on H1R is to ignore #3.

For these reasons, I think we're going about this backwards. On the other hand, I think someone else could pick up #2 & #3, then apply what you've found on #1. No, I don't think you're wasting your time and effort. The results for me will not indicate the best oil, rather simply the possible best ratio for performance.

 

[blsnelling]

Brad - do you mean K2 or R50 ?

Yamalube R2.

 

[KG441c]

Exactly. That being the case, what gives better protection...a synthetic ester at 40:1 or something like R2 at 32:1? With that question, I'm making the assumption that the synthetic ester needs to be 40:1 to run clean and have acceptable performance. That may well not be the case.

I agree

 

[bwalker]

I've always said, after some point, better isn't really better. If your application can't benefit from it, it's no better. With that said, I fully believe that an ester synthetic will give better protection than R2, or similar, in a near lean seize situation. Then the question becomes, which synthetic ester gives the best protection with the fewest negative side affects.

I would say your state that an ester would give better protection than 2R is a blanket statement. 2R is used in applications many times more stressful than a saw, so I think it would do just fine with anything you can dish out, even with a ported saw.

 

[Mastermind]

I've tried a lot of other oils too.......and none caused a failure.

I used a quart of K2 not long ago........too smelly.

I've used 710, and 800......great oils.

Mobil 2T.......again, great stuff......very clean.

I'm trying Yamalube now.

I'm sorta the if it ain't broke, don't fix it sorta guy. H1R worked well. I kept using it.

 

[bwalker]

If you are running lean for long you will seize and no oil will prevent it.

 

[blsnelling]

I would say your state that an ester would give better protection than 2R is a blanket statement. 2R is used in applications many times more stressful than a saw, so I think it would do just fine with anything you can dish out, even with a ported saw.

That very well may be. This is pushing me to continue with the idea of some endpoint failure testing. I see no way to test bearing wear, unless the bottom end fails, but I think I can gain some valuable data with heat seizures.

 

[KG441c]

That very well may be. This is pushing me to continue with the idea of some endpoint failure testing. I see no way to test bearing wear, unless the bottom end fails, but I think I can gain some valuable data with heat seizures.

When??? Already!! Lol!!

 

[blsnelling]

If you are running lean for long you will seize and no oil will prevent it.

On my heat seizure testing, I would tune to factory specs, then see what oil gives the best protection with the least oil. I would monitor cylinder temps and time to failure.
Would it be logical to assume that the oil which keeps the saw running the coolest and longest gives the best protection?

On the other hand, why bother with endpoint failure testing? All of these synthetic ester are likely to give protection past anything reasonably needed. In that case, simply move onto what runs the cleanest.

 

[KG441c]

Id be more interested in that test rather than ratios but Im still waiting to see Redbulls test as it is interesting

 

[bwalker]

On the other hand, why bother with endpoint failure testing? All of these synthetic ester are likely to give protection past anything reasonably needed. In that case, simply move onto what runs the cleanest.

THIS!
As I have said many times earlier the film strength issue with two cycle oils being a limiting factor was addressed years ago.

 

[Mastermind]

I do know that I've learned a lot from these "silly" oil threads. They have pushed me to try different oils, read and study.....

I will again say that this one test, with this one M-T saw is not enough to change my mind about anything I've learned.

 

[bwalker]

View attachment 419184

That's Motul 800 off-road at 32:1. That's after almost two quarts of off-road.

Muffler is pretty wet..

 

[Trx250r180]

Muffler is pretty wet..

Why is a wet muffler not good ?

 

[Moparmyway]

Muffler is pretty wet..

I will take a wet muffler, well protected and clean top half any day - any week - any month - of any and every year over anything else.
I want my saws to last !!!

 

[bwalker]

One thing I will say is that my current bike, a 09 Yamaha YZ-250 has been punished while running 2R @ 32:1 on pump fuel and its never missed a beat. I am jetted very sharp and the compression on this model is borderline for pump gas. I also have a Pro Circuit pipe on it, which makes the above situation even worse. I have had this bike at the dunes where I was wide open throttle most of a day with a paddle tire. The unfinished steel pipe turned blue it got so hot and the section near the manifold was dull, like it was about ready to start glowing. The bike ran perfect for three days like that.
I have never punished a saw like this.
Am I comfortable using 2R in a saw, no matter the application? You bet!

 

[bwalker]

Why is a wet muffler not good ?

Because it means your running rich or your blowing oil out the exhaust, which decreases HP. It also leads to buildup on spark screens, etc and makes a mess.

 

[bwalker]

I will take a wet muffler, well protected and clean top half any day - any week - any month - of any and every year over anything else.
I want my saws to last !!!

Your not doing your saws any favors running like that. And your losing HP.

 

[Trx250r180]

One thing I will say is that my current bike, a 09 Yamaha YZ-250 has been punished while running 2R @ 32:1 on pump fuel and its never missed a beat. I am jetted very sharp and the compression on this model is borderline for pump gas. I also have a Pro Circuit pipe on it, which makes the above situation even worse. I have had this bike at the dunes where I was wide open throttle most of a day with a paddle tire. The unfinished steel pipe turned blue it got so hot and the section near the manifold was dull, like it was about ready to start glowing. The bike ran perfect for three days like that.
I have never punished a saw like this.
Am I comfortable using 2R in a saw, no matter the application? You bet!

I can not remember exactly how far down the pipe ,but my engine builder would look at my pipe to see if the jetting was right for how i was riding on the 250r ,would use the blueing as a tuning tool .

Edit ,now that you mention the glowing ,at night in the dunes ,i could see the pipe glow some by the jug .

 

[bwalker]

This is from a bone stock 562 ran on 2R since new.