Firewood vs. Sawmill?

[sarasbluegroove]

Hello,
I'm new here doing a little research and learning a lot. My husband and I are not experienced with wood stoves or wood in general. I grew up having wood stoves, and he had a fireplace and chopped wood and started fires, I didn't participate in wood stove activities. We recently had some trees professionally taken down for our solar panels we installed, and also the safety of our house. These were monster red oaks, >100 years old. We decided to keep the logs since my dad has a splitter, and we have a lot of property we could store the wood, and we spent $600/month on oil this year for almost 6 months , so a wood burning stove is looking really nice in our future. We currently only have a fireplace that doesn't do much of anything. Said pile of logs is ~10' high, 20' long, and 10' deep. (see pictures below)

My question, these logs are huge, we're probably going to hire someone to at least cut them up so we can split them ourselves. We had one guy quote us a couple hundred to cut them up. Should we look into having a sawmill come and take them? I think i calculated something like $4000 worth of firewood doing a general volume calculation ($250/chord). I have no idea if they are valuable to a sawmill to make lumber out of, so i thought i could post the question here.

I'm also assuming we couldn't use this wood for another 2 years or so? From my reading, you should let fresh (cut in march and may 2022) oak season for ~1-2 years. Does that sound right? I know it depends on the moisture in the wood, so we would probably invest in a moisture meter. Also, i'm all about the numbers, so if you have any good methods of calculating cost savings of wood burning vs oil, or just how much it costs/year to burn wood, I would like to know what you use. Thank you for any information!

 

[Mad Professor]

Most sawmills won't touch "yard trees" as many contain objects which damage equipment (metal, insulators...). A lot of that pile is only good for firewood, I see a few decent sawlogs. Butt log looks hollow/rotted.

You'll need a woodstove , flueliner w/chimney cap for fireplace , and hearth for stove safety, or the heat will go up fireplace chimney. I spent >$2000 on my setup with a used stove, complete UL listed flue system, and granite floor protection w/fireboard under that, but it heats whole house. I did installation myself. I've always lived in homes with a woodstove.



Are you up to the work involved splitting those rounds up if someone bucks up the logs? What about 2-3 years down the line , do you have source of more wood.

 

[sarasbluegroove]

They weren't in our "yard" but in the woods on the property, but I get what you mean. One of them definitely had the potential to have metal in it. Do you know how much you could get for a usable log? Is it worth having them come out?

We have the ability to find more wood on our property for quite some time, and even if we have to purchase chords of wood, it would be cheaper than using our furnace only. We are getting minisplits installed for heating and cooling, so that will increase our electric, however if the stove can decrease the use of the heating unit on our first floor, and decrease the use of the furnace, it will go a long way.

Yes, we understand how much work will be involved with splitting the rounds, and setting up the areas to store them. We may be storing rounds for a while. Thanks for the reply and information.

 

[pdqdl]

Previous comments seem appropriate.

If you are going to do the work of splitting the wood, you shouldn't even consider paying someone to cut up the wood for you. Get a decent chainsaw with at least a 20" bar, and you'll be fine. Don't go buy a monster saw, because that will be a big expense and a greater danger to an inexperienced user. Don't forget that there is also a plethora of accessories that go with cutting up firewood. You will need wedges, a splitting ax is nice to have, plenty of safety gear, sharpening tools, and log handling tools like peavey. You will eventually get around to felling some trees, and that is an entire additional concern for safety and tools.

You might consider finding someone from the wood scrounger thread in your area. A really good option might be to find a firewood scrounger that will give you lessons on your first saw for 1/2 the firewood that they cut up with you. Obviously, how well that that works out would rely entirely upon having a good relationship with whomever you find.

Unless you are genuinely and fully committed to heating the house with firewood, you should consider an attractive fireplace insert. They don't require nearly as much space in your living room, they are quite a bit more attractive, and they also burn less wood. Sadly, they also do not quite produce as much heat, despite their high efficiency.

I heat my house with a very nice fireplace insert from QuadraFire, but I don't do it full-time in the winter and it's a very nice addition to the fireplace in that it also stops cold drafts down the chimney when it is not burning. Folks with just a fireplace insert are often quite content buying some cordwood already split up, and they don't have to justify that big firewood-stove mess in that half of the house. My wife likes the heat, but she doesn't like the mess, she makes me do all the work, and it isn't too practical to work my hours and come play fire-tender all night long, either.

 

[Bill G]

Questions you need to ask yourself and answer honestly
How long do you honestly see yourself wanting to heat with wood? What I am getting at is your age and general health.

Are BOTH you are your husband committed to do the work long term?

You said you burned oil for almost 6 months.Based on that I am going to probably incorrectly assume you are in the Northeast. That is based on using oil and for 6 months.

How big of home do you heat and what type
of heating system do you currently have

 

[sarasbluegroove]

Yes we are in the Northeast, we are in our mid 30's, so should be able to handle at least this pile of wood. I was thinking we would get the stove insert like someone mentioned, and probably won't burn 24/7, but be able to supplement the ductless heat pumps (minisplits) run on electric and an oil forced air furnace. We have a 1900 sq ft house, but I already know we could not heat the whole house with a stove, the heat would never actually get upstairs. It's a "modern" home built in the 70s that has a very strange way of funtioning in terms of how heat and cool air flows through the house, probably not designed for function but asthetics (hence why we are installing minisplits and not just a central air unit).

We have a neighbor actually who has been showing us the ropes on cutting and using saws and my dad is also very experienced, but that's a good option if we need more help. Right now the challenge with this pile of wood is manipulating the logs, in order to cut through them, they need to be rolled, and if we hired someone they would probably have more experience. However, we managed to get one done over 3 days ourselves using some rope and Tundra horsepower , so we may be able to chip away at it ourselves.

 

[JRM]

I'm generally burning mine at the 1 to 1.5 year mark. But that's once it is cut, split, and stacked. I stack along the woods line on the west end of the property so the stack gets full morning sun to help dry it out.

Without knowing your set up you might consider tying into your forced air furnaces duct work. There are forced air wood stoves out there for this application. They can be installed indoors or outdoors.
Advantage, the house is heated much more evenly compared to a stove in a central location.
They can be more costly depending on how much of the work you do yourself.

 

[ValleyForge]

Yes we are in the Northeast, we are in our mid 30's, so should be able to handle at least this pile of wood. I was thinking we would get the stove insert like someone mentioned, and probably won't burn 24/7, but be able to supplement the ductless heat pumps (minisplits) run on electric and an oil forced air furnace. We have a 1900 sq ft house, but I already know we could not heat the whole house with a stove, the heat would never actually get upstairs. It's a "modern" home built in the 70s that has a very strange way of funtioning in terms of how heat and cool air flows through the house, probably not designed for function but asthetics (hence why we are installing minisplits and not just a central air unit).

We have a neighbor actually who has been showing us the ropes on cutting and using saws and my dad is also very experienced, but that's a good option if we need more help. Right now the challenge with this pile of wood is manipulating the logs, in order to cut through them, they need to be rolled, and if we hired someone they would probably have more experience. However, we managed to get one done over 3 days ourselves using some rope and Tundra horsepower , so we may be able to chip away at it ourselves.

If you are going to get a stove, I suggest you look now and don’t hesitate. With the current administrations war on energy, and attacks on the supply chain, stoves have become difficult to get.

 

[JRM]

With the current administrations war on energy, and attacks on the supply chain, stoves have become difficult to get.

This is true. Here is the most current list of states with restrictions that I know of.

https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/ordinances-and-regulations-wood-burning-appliances

 

[Bill G]

The reason I asked the questions I did was to see if burning wood was something you wanted to do long term. If your objective is to simply use up the available wood then with all due respect that is not a wise investment. As pointed out by others a decent system is not cheap nor is if you have to pay any labor.

First I want to say I know zero about minisplits and had to google them. I still know zero as they are simply not something we see here. Nearly all heating is in this area gas (LP or NG) through a forced air or hot water system. Cooling is traditional forced air. Yes there are more and more geothermals but still very few.

With that being said I am a huge proponent of burning wood and have most of my life. Since you are young one option to consider is a long term investment in a outdoor wood boiler. That is what I use and heat my house and domestic hot water with. I have a traditional forced air furnace with a heat exchanger ran by the boiler. There is virtually unlimited heat available. There is zero mess in the house and you do not need to be picky on wood species. No matter what some will tell you burning wood in a fireplace or stove requires some pickiness.

Now the HUGE drawback is the initial investment. A good (NOT LOW QUALITY) boiler will easily run $15000 installed. Since you are young it will not take long though for it to pencil out. You said you used $600 of oil for 6 months so that is $3600/year and next years prices will surely be much higher per gallon although the winter should not be near as long.

I will assure you the heat with a boiler is unbeatable

 

[sean donato]

I have a forced air wood furnace. Heating 2600 sqft. Normal heating season is 10 cord a year. Nothing else to heat the house with. Even supplemental heat like my dad's place takes considerable work and time. I often wonder if it would be easier/ cheaper to get cord wood delivered. To date I have never paid for the wood we use to heat with. But considering the equipment and time invested I'd hazard to say some sort of gas heat would be easier and cheaper. I just had one of my go to saws give some trouble, no eta on parts. Ended up buying another saw. That was a fast $1k out the door. My furnace is very old and to replace it with something similar would be very expensive and choices are getting smaller by the day it seems. The epa has really cracked down on solid fuel burning appliances.
I typically let my logs sit for at least a year, and like to keep a 3 year rotation going on logs. Once split they are on their 4th year of drying and get burned that year. This year I have plans to make the wood shed larger and store 2 years worth of splits. I'm not getting any younger, and had some health issues a few years ago that set me back a few months and ended up asking for a lot of help to get the logs bucked split and stacked. I have recently acquired a small kubota tractor that has made life much easier for handling the wood. That cost needs included as well.
Guess what I'm getting at is its an investment and more so a life style for many of us that heat with wood. I've heated with wood most my life so it doesn't bother me much. Your fresh downed trees arnt going to be good for a couple of years anyway. So you have some time to consider what your doing.

 

[Mad Professor]

I'm in 1300 a sq ft ranch. Zone 5-4b, New England. Furnace only gets turned on in winter for showers, doing dishes, or if I'm away for > 2 days. Basement never got < 45 oF all winter. Heat is circulating water/oil backup, which heats hot water. It's usually ~80 oF in living room winter, holds 60 oF cold days in farthest bedroom.

I used 3 cord of seasoned ash and cherry, and 150 gallons of oil from Sept-----> next Sept. I keep 5-gal pot of water on stove and use that for dishes when practical. Also cook on the top and/or pre-heat cooking water.

 

[JustPlainJeff]

I will assure you the heat with a boiler is unbeatable

I don't know about this (at least for me personally), the jury's still out. Last year we heated with propane, as the house that we just bought DOES have an outdoor boiler, but the previous owner didn't leave us enough seasoned firewood to use the boiler. So, we spent between 5 and 6K on propane to heat our house and garage last Winter.

But prior to last Winter, I wasn't sure that I'd EVER use the boiler, as I just wasn't sure (and still am not positive yet) if the cost savings of cutting and splitting my own wood to save on the fuel costs was worth my time or energy. So, I'm giving the wood boiler a year's worth of trial this coming Winter as well. I'll see after I'm done cutting and splitting all of the standing dead trees that it will require to heat the house this Winter if it is worth it to me.

I'm not "rich" by any means, but we're pretty comfortable. And while I can pay for the propane, it does irk the hell out of me to write the check to the propane company each month. But I don't know if I'll still be in love with all of the cutting and splitting after this year enough to want to keep doing it every year. And as you stated, there can be SIGINFICANT investment in tools and the heating apparatus to start off, and not everybody is in a position to lay out that initial expense. We'll see if my time is worth more to me, or if my checking account is worth more to me after this coming Winter. I don't think this stuff is for everybody. But I'm hoping I enjoy it enough to continue doing it for the immediate future, as it's good for my health, and it stops me from holding the couch down all day! LOL.

Sorry OP, I appear to have gotten off of your topic. You're obviously young enough to do this for quite some time, and it sounds as if you've got the inclination to as well. I agree with the person above who said that if you're going to dive in, you go ahead and do just that, DIVE IN! Buy yourselves a chainsaw (or preferrably two, so that you have a backup saw as well), learn how to cut, and go to it! I wish you financial savings, and enjoyment in cutting/splitting your own wood!!!

 

[Bill G]

I don't know about this (at least for me personally), the jury's still out. Last year we heated with propane, as the house that we just bought DOES have an outdoor boiler, but the previous owner didn't leave us enough seasoned firewood to use the boiler. So, we spent between 5 and 6K on propane to heat our house and garage last Winter.

Spending $5000-$6000 on LP is enough justification for me. That is a LOT of gallons

 

[JustPlainJeff]

Spending $5000-$6000 on LP is enough justification for me. That is a LOT of gallons

There's probably no disputing that, AS LONG as you have the time, inclination, and enjoy spending A LOT of time cutting/splitting as well. And at this point, I do enjoy it, and have the time to do it. It may not always be that way though. I could earn a lot more than 5 or 6K in the same amount of time that I'm spending in the woods so far. It's all just a perspective issue for each individual though I suppose.

 

[Bill G]

I could earn a lot more than 5 or 6K in the same amount of time that I'm spending in the woods so far. It's all just a perspective issue for each individual though I suppose.

Well here is my perspective In that situation
Since you earn a lot more than the $5000 to $6000 in the time period then why don't you buy firewood from some young person trying to support their family. Yes good hard working folks make their living in LP but in the end the real profit goes to an oil company. To me it would be better to support a young guy locally but heck hat do I know

 

[JustPlainJeff]

Well here is my perspective In that situation
Since you earn a lot more than the $5000 to $6000 in the time period then why don't you buy firewood from some young person trying to support their family. Yes good hard working folks make their living in LP but in the end the real profit goes to an oil company. To me it would be better to support a young guy locally but heck hat do I know

Actually, I like your perspective a lot. Right now, I AM enjoying it a lot, and more importantly, it's good for me. And I'm trying to be retired LOL! So, it's not that I DO earn a lot more during that time, it's just that in my head I tell myself "man, I could be earning more if I was working than doing this" We'll see if I'm able to stay retired though. I get antsy pretty quickly. But, if I do decide that I don't want to continue cutting, the previous owner told me that he burns about 8 cords of firewood in the boiler per year. If I bought that from someone locally, already split, it would cost me 250.00 X 8, so 2K for the entire Winter. That money would be going to a local person that's feeding their family, I'd still save 3-4K, have the same outcome, and that 2K that I was spending I'd feel better about where I was spending it.

 

[LadyBandCo]

Most sawmills won't touch "yard trees" as many contain objects which damage equipment (metal, insulators...). A lot of that pile is only good for firewood, I see a few decent sawlogs. Butt log looks hollow/rotted.

You'll need a woodstove , flueliner w/chimney cap for fireplace , and hearth for stove safety, or the heat will go up fireplace chimney. I spent >$2000 on my setup with a used stove, complete UL listed flue system, and granite floor protection w/fireboard under that, but it heats whole house. I did installation myself. I've always lived in homes with a woodstove.

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Are you up to the work involved splitting those rounds up if someone bucks up the logs? What about 2-3 years down the line , do you have source of more wood.

great reply! i agree with you on asking them if theyre ready to and understand the amount of physical labor thats involved with heating through a wood stove. especially splitting and stacking and keeping dry! a friend of mine took on the new skill and literally told me he wasnt expecting tthe work load and bought a few cords instead.

 

[LadyBandCo]

Hello,
I'm new here doing a little research and learning a lot. My husband and I are not experienced with wood stoves or wood in general. I grew up having wood stoves, and he had a fireplace and chopped wood and started fires, I didn't participate in wood stove activities. We recently had some trees professionally taken down for our solar panels we installed, and also the safety of our house. These were monster red oaks, >100 years old. We decided to keep the logs since my dad has a splitter, and we have a lot of property we could store the wood, and we spent $600/month on oil this year for almost 6 months , so a wood burning stove is looking really nice in our future. We currently only have a fireplace that doesn't do much of anything. Said pile of logs is ~10' high, 20' long, and 10' deep. (see pictures below)

My question, these logs are huge, we're probably going to hire someone to at least cut them up so we can split them ourselves. We had one guy quote us a couple hundred to cut them up. Should we look into having a sawmill come and take them? I think i calculated something like $4000 worth of firewood doing a general volume calculation ($250/chord). I have no idea if they are valuable to a sawmill to make lumber out of, so i thought i could post the question here.

I'm also assuming we couldn't use this wood for another 2 years or so? From my reading, you should let fresh (cut in march and may 2022) oak season for ~1-2 years. Does that sound right? I know it depends on the moisture in the wood, so we would probably invest in a moisture meter. Also, i'm all about the numbers, so if you have any good methods of calculating cost savings of wood burning vs oil, or just how much it costs/year to burn wood, I would like to know what you use. Thank you for any information!

i think yall should go for it. how ever it goes at least youll have learned a lesson and be ready for the year after! remember youu can always buy firewood in case of emergencys or until you get the hang of getting firewood ready to burn! good luck and great questiion!

 

[mark3885]

I have been heating with wood for 40 yrs now. First house , I installed a wood burning stove to heat a 3 bedroom ranch , about 1200 sq ft. The house was always warm and comfortable , firewood was where ever I could get it . I always had a pick up truck so hauling was not a problem. Carrying the wood into the house was not ideal, but it worked . It’s a life style and moving and splitting wood was my time at the “gym”.
Fast forward to now , my wife and I built our own real log home and of course 2 wood stoves and an out door boiler with 1500 gallons of storage ( heated water is stored for when the house call for heat).All radiant floor heat , I have 175 acres of hardwood forest , big tractors ,big log splitter and plenty of room to store and stack wood. It’s a good amount of work, but it is a life style that I enjoy, I’m 64 yrs old , retired for 2 years, slim , healthy and full of energy. It’s a life style and I love it.