what ever happened to...

[treeman82]

What happened to the groundies who when you tell them to pull on a top or stick you can actually see or even better yet FEEL them pulling? This whole year I have yet to encounter 1 groundie who actually pulls when you tell them to. Granted it was a little agrivating when they would pull WAY too hard. Maybe there's been some new discovery in the field of ergonomics which says you can get more force into a pull by NOT putting your body weight into it??? It seems as though everybody this year who I tell to pull... they say they are pulling, but I can't feel it, and they are standing upright.

This spring I clipped a house in part because of lack of pull. Today I almost got clipped in part because of the same thing... 3 guys pulling... the piece came back at me, even though it had plenty of lean towards them.

 

[sloth9669]

Get a groundie with some nuggs

The title sums it up...i would not be up in a tree with a limb being cut off and someone who cant handle the ropes right. Spend some time and some training with them. If that has been done or they just dont get it find em another job to do or replace em. Hate to sound harsh but it takes one limb one good hit and your done. Its not being mean its being safe.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Tirfors are cheap insurance

 

[Ekka]

Today I almost got clipped in part because of the same thing... 3 guys pulling... the piece came back at me, even though it had plenty of lean towards them.

How can this happen?

I tend to get guys who want to pull the whole darn tree over before you back cut it.

 

[treesquirrel]

How can this happen?

I tend to get guys who want to pull the whole darn tree over before you back cut it.

I got a 270 pound gorrilla as my pull man. Works out great! He's a bit slow draggin brush however.

I'm with Ekka, I often ask him to pull less, not more.

Teach your guys how to tie in a 2-1 MA and it will help a lot. I taught my crew this and they love it for hard pulls.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

How can this happen?

The probably jerked the line instead of steady pressure. I've had some close ones like that, the chunk started to lean back on the curf because the allowed slack so the could tug. Not good whn you have a bybass under the scarf.

 

[John464]

when tops are being pulled I always have the groundies do a test pull. If it doesnt look like its going to go or there is heavy winds, the more cuttin I do. Not sure how you almost get clipped with a leaning top in same direction as notch. Those i very rarely put a rope in. If the tree doesnt need ground encouragement Id rather be the one in complete control. Its the ones straight up or leaning the other way you need the extra pulling muscle.

 

[beastmaster]

Don't confuse labors with groundsmen. Good groundies who know rigging,knots,can think for themselves are a dieing breed it seems to me. Just cuz you pull brush and feed a chipper don't make you a good ground man. I've worked with some great grounds man over the years. They made my job up in the trees a lot easier, anticipating what was needed before I ask. I hate doing dangerous removal with a bunch of primadonna groundie who get mad if you ask em to send something up. Working ropes on removal is an art and takes common sense. We have language problems, attitude problems, and just some mentally challenged individuals. I'ed sure like to see some good groundies again.

 

[treeman82]

How can this happen?

I tend to get guys who want to pull the whole darn tree over before you back cut it.

I had a big piece that I was gonna blow out of this maple, but to get it where the guy running the show wanted it to go, it had to get past some limbs on a BIG hickory. So I put a rope in, not very high, but it should have been enough to get a little bit more power behind it coming down. Well I start cutting, and 3 guys are standing there "pulling". The piece starts to go a little bit, and I guess I cut a bit too far, plus they weren't pulling enough, if at all... so it kicked off the tree and came down butt heavy due to the hickory branches. When the top came down it came back towards me.

Now I may not know too much, but when you're pulling on something, you aren't going to be standing upright. You're going to be either leaning forward, or way back to put your weight into the rope. You don't stand perfectly upright.

 

[Ekka]

Oh, so it was actually interference from the hickory branches that didn't allow the top come over horizontal. Consequently the butt went down first.

I understand the rocking ones, that's a noobs trait, they rock the darn thing.

 

[reachtreeservi]

Don't confuse labors with groundsmen. Good groundies who know rigging,knots,can think for themselves are a dieing breed it seems to me. Just cuz you pull brush and feed a chipper don't make you a good ground man. I've worked with some great grounds man over the years. They made my job up in the trees a lot easier, anticipating what was needed before I ask. I hate doing dangerous removal with a bunch of primadonna groundie who get mad if you ask em to send something up. Working ropes on removal is an art and takes common sense. We have language problems, attitude problems, and just some mentally challenged individuals. I'ed sure like to see some good groundies again.

Good groundsmen aren't just hard to find....
They are just about impossible to find.
After going thru a bunch of them, I work with a 75 year old man now as my personal groundsman.
He's forgotten more about sawing than most of the 20-30 year olds will ever know. And he has the work ethic of the WW2 generation.
Sure, there are some days when he's a little slow, but then again the same could be said for me.

He's a great guy, and I consider myself lucky to work with him.
Together we get it done, and have a great time.

 

[oldirty]

its been said on this site before that a climber makes the best ground guy. think about it, they are going through the tree with you, from the ground, and are usually one step in front of you when you need something. by that i mean just as you are about to ask for something they are already tieing it to your line.

the company i work for now has only 1 true ground guy. the rest of us are all climbers and thats how we get it done.

our crane op/foreman is actually the best climber on the crew. we also have two 20+ yr climbers on the crew as well. those guys are great for knowledge and i do like them alot. (but they seem to disappear when its clean up time. lol) along with 4 other climbers. sometimes we are all on the same job or split into 2 or 3 working crews. everyone knows exaclty what needs to be done to get the job done. its a good thing

so think of how lucky i am everytime up. ive got a vast amounts of information i can tap into whenever i ask a question of the them.

dont forget running rope for a climber and his cuts. you can almost love a man for not letting a nasty piece rock the tree.

and just for sh!ts and giggles you can see my pic on the "post a pic of yourself" thread. i'll pull that tree over for ya next time man. lol




oldirty

 

[tree md]

I had a meltdown at work the other day. I was roping a big cottonwood leaner from over a house. I had set a bull rope in another cottonwood directly behind the one I was taking down. I had one of my guys on the rope and told him to let the rope run, let it swing out and drop it like a feather in my predetermined drop zone. I told him to make sure it didn't swing back into the house. I also told everyone on the job 1 man on the rope. I had him get a wrap on another tree and didn't want to have 3 minds and 6 hands trying to figure out when to break on the rope or react when I told them to drop it. I looked down when I was about to lower my first limb and 3 of my guys were holding the rope. I told them again 1 man on the rope. When I lowered the biggest limb in the top and all three were still trying to hold the rope I lost it. After I calmed down I told them there was a reason that I only wanted 1 man on the rope and please, for the 4th time, 1 man on the rope!!! LOL, I think I finally got their attention. Most of the guys that work for me want to either pull too hard or hold on for dear life...

 

[DDM]

not holding steady pressure and bouncing the line imo is causes alot of problems.I'd rather deal with the situation myself in a tree rather then them bouncing it.

 

[Raneleigh]

yesterday my groundy was a 19 year old girl, she dropped a 45' pine beautifully, lightly brushed a prize maple on one side and a fence on the other, there was no room for error, but she did it!

I only higher the best!

 

[pbtree]

Just cuz you pull brush and feed a chipper don't make you a good ground man.

Good point!

 

[CRN Tree]

I started out as a groundie and learned the ropes. Konts, rigging everything I learned from one of the best climbers around my area. Now 15 years later he know longer climbs and he is my ground man. He still has it as far as ways to do things. But when it comes to watching me and thinking ahead he's lost it somewhere. At times I'd like to remind him of when he was in the tree and never had to wait for anything. And how I find my self waiting for someone to move my climbing line or something stuid. But yeah he's my father I can't fire him.

 

[Xtra]

The problem I get is that the guys are always standing too close. I keep telling them the further you go out the more side leverage you get, or they give 1 clean tug and then let the piece alone . . . sometimes you have to pull and quickly take up the slack to keep the limb from swinging back into a gutter.

My main rope guy is a true groudie. I've had him lowering with a port-a-wrap for over 5 years now. We don't even speak to each other anymore, it's just hand signals (which is good since my Spanish is pretty bad).

 

[Jumper]

Having spent some time tugging brush and rope, I can honestly state I only had a really good rapport with one climber, the first one I worked with, and to a lesser degree, the last one, but he had anger control management issues thus I don't work for him anymore.

This is a job that requires a lot of humping and grunt work, but it also is one that requires more than a bit of skill and knowledge at select times. Hire a dummy, ya take your risks. Treat someone with potential like an idiot, ya take your risks. Pay someone peanuts, you'll attract and retain no one worth keeping. Developing a beneficial relationship in tree service activities does not happen overnight and yelling and carrying on over the trivial is likely to accomplish little other than piss off both parties.

Would I do it again, yes, but right now I enjoy my full time job which certainly pays if nothing else.

 

[00chris85]

i've been a groundy for most of 10 years now that i climb i can't get my head around how people workin for me don't understand what i ask for, while in the tree. a pull is a pull not hang on to the rope and see what happens.
but my favorite is (and i think most people will agree with me) workin in a tree with 90 heat in the shade, look over to see you groundies sittin down drinkin water and not payin attention to what i'm doin... or workin.
but it was said earlier that the best groundy is a climber.