Well think about that, to drive they need a license.
16 yo kid inside a mill
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Understood, but a license really means nothing. Many hundreds of thousands of idiots on the roads with a license. I just wonder if this story had been about a 16 year old lifeguard that died diving into a pool trying to save a toddler, would there be any talk of lawsuits?
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My experience echoes yours on that account, I have seen more students injured with a bandsaw than any other machine, followed by bench grinders
Mike Rowe has some awesome content out there that more teenagers need to see.
Bill G
ArboristSite King
Of all the "reality" shows out there Mike Rowe did a great job with "Dirty Jobs" Of course he developed the show to make money but he also shed a light on what working class folks truly do.
On a side note funny you mention a 16 year old in a Dodge 3500 pulling a loaded Gooseneck. My oldest son's first vehicle at 15 was a Ford F350 4 door long bed with a 7.3. He pulled many a trailer with it at that age.
Bill G
ArboristSite King
I have tons of stories about teenagers in the shop and such. The majority are somewhat humorous in the end but not at the time.
I had a boy in the welding class that like to wear tennis shoes and frayed jean cuffs. I told him they were not safe and he was endangering the top of his foot being burned. I advised all kids they needed leather shoes/boots but was told by administration I could not require it. I thought alrighty then. Well a few months go by and it is time for my evaluation. My principal is in the shop observing the students and I. We are talking when all of a sudden there is some foul language and the kid comes running out of a welding booth stomping around as his pants cuff/shoe were on fire. I look over at my principal and say "Well Skip you think he learned a lesson" He says "Nope".
A few years later I am now teaching Industrial Tech closer to home. I am in an odd situation that I actually liked. I taught mornings in one district and afternoons in another. I was the third man in the first school and the man that was trying to keep the program alive in the other. Well as I mentioned the bandsaw has caused the highest number of injuries among the students I had. I will highlight a couple. I had a nice young man in class mornings at the first scholl and his mother was the counselor at the second school. We are working in the shop one morning and undenounced to me he nips his finger on the bandsaw. He does not say anything but imagine my embarrassment when I see his mom at the second school that afternoon and she says...."Hey I here Brock cut his finger in your shop this morning" Yeah I was a bit taken back as he never said anything and did not know what to say. She laughed and said "serves him right"
A year or two later in the second school I have this smartmouth young boy that always thought he knew it all. He was always trying to be the center of attention and attract the young ladies. Well one day we are working in the wood shop and he is trying to impress this young blonde girl. He is using the bandsaw and tells her " I wonder what would happen if I did this" as he makes a motion with his finger toward the running saw. Well according to her he did that a couple times then a AWE POOP as he nipped off the very tip of his finger. The principal asked me for an explanation. I tell him the dipstick did it on purpose.... then I get yelled at. I then say ask the girl that was there. He did, nothing more was said.
I had a senior student in the welding shop that figured out that if he took his welds over to the shop sink and ran water on them his gloves would get wet. That is not rocket science. He then figured out if he went back to welding with wet gloves it would lower his resistance to electrical shock from the welder. For whatever reason he liked that. Well he got a bit more shock than he was anticipating and after class called his mom who was a nurse and she took him to the hospital as she thought he might have heart damage. I told my principal she ought be more concerned with brain damage. He ended up flunking my welding class which he actually need to graduate.
I have tons more
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I have a few similar stories, it is amazing some of the dumb things that teenagers will do. It is also amazing sometimes the things administration will require/prohibit in the "best interest" of the students that are actually detrimental to their health and safety.
I had a good boy sitting in the hallway outside of the shop once, working on a makeup test, and another one had skipped out of class, he was a problem student and did it all the time, but administration wouldn't do anything about him. He picked up a freshly sharpened wood chisel from the other class and thew it down the hallway, skipping it like a rock. It caught the good boy in the wrist, missed his artery by about 1/8"
I walked out in the hallway to see what the commotion was, there was blood EVERYWHERE. I thought they were playing a joke on me until I saw the wrist. You could follow the blood trail up to the front office. The good kid who got cut is doing well now though, in the air force with a good rank, out at White Sands and with a kid or two.
Bill G
ArboristSite King
Well for all the stories that had rather funny endings there was one that was not. I had a young black man in class that had been bounced around all his life. He finally landed with an older foster family in the area. The father was a career retired Army officer that had served in Vietnam. He was tough but loving. He said though that when Devin and his foster brother were out they would be the last. Well I had Devin in class freshman through senior year. I believe he was a junior when he got hurt. We were working in the wood shop in the afternoon. He was using the table saw working on a drawer piece for his nightstand. The shop was somewhat divided into two attached rooms. I was helping kids in the assembly area probably 60 feet away from where he was working. He came walking up to me clutching his left hand with his right and said "Mr. G I think I cut my hand". I looked at him and looked at it and said "yes you did" I had a towel there and threw over his hand. I then put my arm around his shoulder and quickly guided him out of the shop and across to the drafting classroom. I wanted to get him away from the other students and into a quiet spot. It was amazing all the kids knew not to come over and stayed where they were supposed to. We had a ridiculous phone system. I had to call the office and tell them what happened and that I needed 911. They had to call 911 but of course questions were asked and time was lost. Well we have an all volunteer ambulance system so I knew it was going to be awhile. The SRO (school cop) who is a uniformed sheriff's deputy came down. He was a joke. I had some clean cotton towels there and he wanted to cut them into strips to make a tourniquet. Well he did not even have a knife. I thought what an idiot, God I hope you never have to cut a seat belt. I ran back over to the shop where the kids were standing and talking. I said I need a knife and they all looked at me funny as of course knifes are not allowed in school. I repeated myself and they realized the importance. Then about everyone of them pulled out some sort of a knife up to a pig sticker. I took one and ran back to the room. By then one of the bus drivers had come over from the bus garage as she was on the ambulance crew. It was over 20 minutes to get an ambulance there. They took him off and I spent a helluva sleepless night worrying about him. I got told a few things the next day. The day after that I was told he had lost half the middle finger. As it turns out he cut 3 of the fingers with the middle one taking the worst hit. The doctors had to amputate the two outer joints but saved the others. A couple days after the accident I called his foster mom. It was one of the toughest calls I had ever made and I truly did not know what I was going to say or how she would react. When she picked up the phone I told her who I was and barely started to speak as my voice was shaky. I will never forget what she said. She said "Mr G. I am going to stop you right there, I can tell in your voice you are worried, we want you to know that no one, none of us blame you in anyway for what happened. Devin told us what he was doing and that is was fault. You have been great with him and we will all get through just fine so put your mind at ease" We talked for a good long time and I assured her that I looked at what he was doing and he was not screwing around. He simply made a mistake. Devin came back to school shortly and went back to working on his project. He graduated and moved on but unfortunately had some issues as an adult. I do not know where he is today. I used to joke that I had never seen a black kid turn white until that day
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As sad as that outcome was for him, it could have been a lot more serious, and I am sure he learned a lot from it.
We actually just had one of our students die in an ATV accident about a month ago, wonderful sweet, smart, and pretty young lady. We also had one who graduated last year, who had gotten mixed up in drugs, commit suicide about a month ago.
Bill G
ArboristSite King
Oh I have not talked about those. It is tragic that almost every year we lost a student. It was generally suicide or an accident. When I was in school we were a class of 100. We lost one as a sophomore and almost lost two as freshman. In that accident the older sister died.
As a teacher I only had one student that was in my class one day and dead the next. That was due to a semi hitting he and his mother while they were delivering Christmas presents.
We just lost a local student in May to murder when another student broke into the house to rob him and ended up shooting him.
As a teacher I only had one student that was in my class one day and dead the next. That was due to a semi hitting he and his mother while they were delivering Christmas presents.
We just lost a local student in May to murder when another student broke into the house to rob him and ended up shooting him.
Bill, I have zero knowledge of a lawsuit. It's also conjecture that the kid was in the mill when he died. I'll admit to both counts of jumping to conclusions.
I do however find it completely ironic that my argument that 16 yo kids are too immature to be working in an industrial sawmill environment is being poohpoo'ed by you and others.
Me: Kids have no business doing this. They do too many stupid things, bunch of ways of arguing my case that most of you completely dont agree with.
You: Its fine for them to be in an industrial environment, good learning... (And heres the real kicker) 4-5, was it more? I'm stopped counting, stories of kids getting hurt in your class (vocational woodworking probabaly?) doing stupid things, even after you educated them not to do stupid things. Mostly due to immaturity. Some just an accident that could have been prevented if the kid was paying better attention or working safer...
Me:
I'm in no way blaming you for their accidents. but come on... thats pure irony.
I do however find it completely ironic that my argument that 16 yo kids are too immature to be working in an industrial sawmill environment is being poohpoo'ed by you and others.
Me: Kids have no business doing this. They do too many stupid things, bunch of ways of arguing my case that most of you completely dont agree with.
You: Its fine for them to be in an industrial environment, good learning... (And heres the real kicker) 4-5, was it more? I'm stopped counting, stories of kids getting hurt in your class (vocational woodworking probabaly?) doing stupid things, even after you educated them not to do stupid things. Mostly due to immaturity. Some just an accident that could have been prevented if the kid was paying better attention or working safer...
Me:
I'm in no way blaming you for their accidents. but come on... thats pure irony.
Bill G
ArboristSite King
So are you now saying we should not have vocational education and teach young men and women skills that they need in life?Bill, I have zero knowledge of a lawsuit. It's also conjecture that the kid was in the mill when he died. I'll admit to both counts of jumping to conclusions.
I do however find it completely ironic that my argument that 16 yo kids are too immature to be working in an industrial sawmill environment is being poohpoo'ed by you and others.
Me: Kids have no business doing this. They do too many stupid things, bunch of ways of arguing my case that most of you completely dont agree with.
You: Its fine for them to be in an industrial environment, good learning... (And heres the real kicker) 4-5, was it more? I'm stopped counting, stories of kids getting hurt in your class (vocational woodworking probabaly?) doing stupid things, even after you educated them not to do stupid things. Mostly due to immaturity. Some just an accident that could have been prevented if the kid was paying better attention or working safer...
Me:
I'm in no way blaming you for their accidents. but come on... thats pure irony.
Do you think kids should be kept in a bubble then burst it on their 18th birthday?
Where is a 18 year kid suppose to work with zero skills?
No.
I’m fine with education. I had wood shop in 8th grade. Also took adv in 11th.
I’m not fine with them employed in a factory setting.
As your anecdotes show, despite adult supervision, not even trying to keep a schedule or quota, teens will get hurt.
Bill G
ArboristSite King
You have avoided 2 of 3 questions.
No, I’m fine with an educational setting like wood shop in HS.
One could arguably could learn more about wood working with hand tools than machines.
There’s other employment available to mid teens outside of a woodworking mill.
Bill G
ArboristSite King
Well since hyperbole is the game of the day:
What the hell are they doing in your class if they aren’t learning skills after you’re done with them, If they have zero skills it isn’t the kids fault.
There’s nothing going on at all in a production shop they couldn’t learn at 18 after they graduate, if you taught them the basics right?
Unfortunately, kids in the 2020’s, aren’t the same as kids in the 1940-80’s.
Yep, I learned to cut with a 60cc Mac Super Pro 60, probably around 11-12, by 15, nobody thought anything of it, when I would grab the saw, and take a bucket of log dawgs and lines out in our 14’ Dorsett runabout, and go get logs for our bonfires, camping
on McGuire Island. My Wife, is constantly amazed at the things I did as a Kid/Teen, the 70’s and 80’s were a different world from today
I can see a parent teaching their child in a Family business, such as farming, a Parent has a much more involved interest in the child’s safety, and a completely different reason for having their child in such a situation than a manager or supervisor, and without any doubt, the parent would likely be supervising the child much more closely than a manager, and wouldn’t be as concerned about “Productivity “, as a manager would be. The Parent would be looking much more to the long game of preparing the child to possibly take over the Family Business in the Future, a manager would much more likely be concerned about that week’s or months production/profits.
Are there EXCEPTIONS?
ABSOLUTELY, I know Many Exceptions myself, but the labor laws are designed to protect ALL, so unfortunately the exceptions may have to wait a few years to do certain activities, but I would rather have 1,000 or 10,000 exceptions waiting a couple years, than have one that isn’t an exception DIE.
The exceptions, will overcome the perceived setbacks, but the DEAD non exceptional children never will
Is it FAIR????
Nope, Definitely Not, but Life ain’t FAIR,
This should be common sense, but sadly, doesn’t seem to be
Doug
Yep, I learned to cut with a 60cc Mac Super Pro 60, probably around 11-12, by 15, nobody thought anything of it, when I would grab the saw, and take a bucket of log dawgs and lines out in our 14’ Dorsett runabout, and go get logs for our bonfires, camping
on McGuire Island. My Wife, is constantly amazed at the things I did as a Kid/Teen, the 70’s and 80’s were a different world from today I can see a parent teaching their child in a Family business, such as farming, a Parent has a much more involved interest in the child’s safety, and a completely different reason for having their child in such a situation than a manager or supervisor, and without any doubt, the parent would likely be supervising the child much more closely than a manager, and wouldn’t be as concerned about “Productivity “, as a manager would be. The Parent would be looking much more to the long game of preparing the child to possibly take over the Family Business in the Future, a manager would much more likely be concerned about that week’s or months production/profits.
Are there EXCEPTIONS?
ABSOLUTELY, I know Many Exceptions myself, but the labor laws are designed to protect ALL, so unfortunately the exceptions may have to wait a few years to do certain activities, but I would rather have 1,000 or 10,000 exceptions waiting a couple years, than have one that isn’t an exception DIE.
The exceptions, will overcome the perceived setbacks, but the DEAD non exceptional children never will
Is it FAIR????
Nope, Definitely Not, but Life ain’t FAIR,
This should be common sense, but sadly, doesn’t seem to be
Doug
Kodiak Kid
Idiot with a "power saw"
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Working in a saw mill is far from the most dangerous job in the world. Statistics show that Crab fishing on the bering sea is the most dangerous job in the world. I crabbed on the Bering for years and fall timber for a living. I'm hear to tell you. Cutting big timber on steep ground is far more dangerous than either crabbing or working in a sawmill! I've also seen 16 and 17 year olds break in on the deck of a crab boat as well as on the saw bucking for cutters. It's all in how they are schooled and supervised during their break in period. Common sense plays a part as well. Stupid is is stupid dose.
Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!
Kodiak Kid
Idiot with a "power saw"
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I knew a guy that broke in cutting timber back in the 70s when he was 13. He's was schooled and trained properly! He ended up cutting for a long time and was good at it!Unfortunately, kids in the 2020’s, aren’t the same as kids in the 1940-80’s.
Yep, I learned to cut with a 60cc Mac Super Pro 60, probably around 11-12, by 15, nobody thought anything of it, when I would grab the saw, and take a bucket of log dawgs and lines out in our 14’ Dorsett runabout, and go get logs for our bonfires, camping
I can see a parent teaching their child in a Family business, such as farming, a Parent has a much more involved interest in the child’s safety, and a completely different reason for having their child in such a situation than a manager or supervisor, and without any doubt, the parent would likely be supervising the child much more closely than a manager, and wouldn’t be as concerned about “Productivity “, as a manager would be. The Parent would be looking much more to the long game of preparing the child to possibly take over the Family Business in the Future, a manager would much more likely be concerned about that week’s or months production/profits.
Are there EXCEPTIONS?
ABSOLUTELY, I know Many Exceptions myself, but the labor laws are designed to protect ALL, so unfortunately the exceptions may have to wait a few years to do certain activities, but I would rather have 1,000 or 10,000 exceptions waiting a couple years, than have one that isn’t an exception DIE.
The exceptions, will overcome the perceived setbacks, but the DEAD non exceptional children never will
Is it FAIR????
Nope, Definitely Not, but Life ain’t FAIR,
This should be common sense, but sadly, doesn’t seem to be
Doug
Kodiak Kid
Idiot with a "power saw"
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So it was his age that killed him? The very best at what they do have accidents and get killed. One simple mistake can possibly kill the best of anyone!
