044 rebuild

[catch_me-WV]

Heat your case half up in an oven, 350 to 375F and then slap/slam it down hard on a hard wood surface, the bearing should just fall out. Most I ever had to do was tap it with a 1" wooden dowel and hammer.

Good deal. Thanks for confirming my suspicions! That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking, but I thought 350F was a bit much? Like I said before, thank GOD I have an awesome wife... I even told her I was going to use the oven for heating the case halves for reassembly.

We actually shared a laugh about the guys who get in trouble with their wives over that. Now the whole "cleaning parts in the dishwasher" thing, that's another story. Then again, our dishwasher is a little over a year old and I really don't feel like having to fix it if something happens... Even better was the conversation the other night about possibly buying a huztl 660 kit to play with after I get this 044 back together. Her response was something along the lines of "that's cool, why wouldn't you want a bigger more powerful saw?" Then again, I do try to treat her right. Like Christmas before last when "santa" gave her a brand new .357 snubby to carry, and yes she can handle the recoil just fine. I guess that sort of thing pays off!

On another note. Working on this and a couple other projects in my "dungeon" (as the wife calls it) sure makes me wish I wouldn't have bothered getting into the IT field. It really ain't what people think. In my area, unless you're lucky, the jobs kinda suck. Looking at the supposed average salaries for stihl certified techs is depressing considering those averages are a damn sight better than what I get paid (and I'm one of 2 guys that work as admins/engineers for about 900 mission critical systems and the proprietary software they run, sigh...). Of course that doesn't even touch on the matter of it being a thankless job. Nobody notices any of your big accomplishments or hard work, they only notice when something goes wrong.

Lesson of the day for those looking for a career: just because you think an industry will be a lucrative or fulfilling one to get into doesn't mean it will be!

Anyways, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

 

[pioneerguy600]

Using a dishwasher for a final cleanup will never damage them, I always scrape out and do a little cleaning in the parts washer first before running the parts through. The paint gun washing cabinet can do a great job fairly fast also.

 

[Evan]

I'm behind on things , what's a hutzl 660 kit .

I'm building a 460. Well I guess when I have the time.
I've built a few 044/440s a few 372s a few 066s a 084 a 385 my 026 and few 260s .

I've been out for so long I don't eve n know what to do with transfers. Lol. Kinda starting fresh.. Been 8 0r s o years since I messed with porting these damn things

 

[catch_me-WV]

I'm behind on things , what's a hutzl 660 kit .

I'm building a 460. Well I guess when I have the time.
I've built a few 044/440s a few 372s a few 066s a 084 a 385 my 026 and few 260s .

I've been out for so long I don't eve n know what to do with transfers. Lol. Kinda starting fresh.. Been 8 0r s o years since I messed with porting these damn things

Don't feel bad. I've never ported any cylinders or heads on anything. That's not to say I haven't done similar work on other things, but never have I ported any engine parts. I'm seriously considering giving it a shot with this cylinder though. Outside of messing with timing, it doesn't seem like there's a lot to it. Though I'm torn about whether I should port this factory cylinder or just buy a cheap big bore kit and play with it.

To answer your question, the huztl 660 kit I was referring to is a Chinese clone of an ms660 that comes as a box of parts. Here is a link to it. I don't have much use for it, but it seems like it would be a fun project and I wouldn't have to risk overworking the 044 when I want to do any milling or ripping.

 

[Evan]

I wouldnt mess with timing only widen. If you run without a gaskett you could slightly raise exhaust and intake.

 

[catch_me-WV]

I wouldnt mess with timing only widen. If you run without a gaskett you could slightly raise exhaust and intake.

I'm not planning on playing with the port timing. I just meant that's where things tend to get a bit more complicated. I'm gonna try to get the cases cleaned up the rest of the way tonight and get that clutch side bearing out, but we'll see. The wife is hell bent on (more) spring cleaning and getting ready to head out next Thursday for vacation. Actually flying out to your general region, Evan, just not Idaho. Gonna visit some family and old friends in Oregon and spend a few days out on the coast.

If I do build one of those ms660 clones, I'm really tempted to paint it up green and purple like a wild thing to mess with peoples heads. I can see it now when somebody asks about it "I bought it at walmart, it's the new Poulan 9228 wild thing!" (since I figure I'd go for a 28" bar to slab with, based on the size of logs I typically see)

 

[Evan]

We have family at grants pass

 

[catch_me-WV]

We have family at grants pass

Good old Grass Pants... lol

Anyways, I finally got most of my parts. Still waiting on my gasket kit and the seller sent me a 10mm wrist pin bearing instead of a 12mm (even though it was part of a package with a 12mm crank assembly). The crank doesn't look too bad. Not quite OEM quality, but not bad. The main differences I see are the lack of radiused shoulders on the new one compared to factory, and an angled groove on one of the counterweights that I'm guessing is for mixing/"slinging" (similar to an oil-slinger in a small 4 stroke, maybe?) purposes. The rod definitely doesn't have the finish quality of the OEM part, but it doesn't show any obvious defects either. Overall pretty consistent with what I expect for the price, but nothing that shouldn't run just fine for me.

I also got the clutch side bearing out. I ended up using the propane torch, but took it slow and used my infrared thermometer on it, making sure to bring the rest of the case half up to a closer temp at the same time. It came out with no problem. Then I heated up the new clutch side bearing (metal cage) and it fell right into place on the new crank.

Once the bearing and crank cooled, I heated the clutch side case half up the same way I did to remove the bearing and drove the outer race of the bearing into the case without much trouble using a small punch.

Hopefully my gasket kit comes in tomorrow so I can get it put back together before I leave for vacation. I doubt I'll have a chance to get the entire saw reassembled, but I'd at least like to have a short block sitting ready for me when I get back. Oh well, I guess that'll leave me more time to ponder whether I'm widening out the exhaust port.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

Nice. Plenty of ways to rebuild a bottom end but one word of caution on Stihl's-- the depth of the pto side bearing is critical. If it protrudes too far, the oiler worm gear will not spin freely and may get damaged. Put your oiler on while centering the crank after assembly. If there's an issue, a large washer and socket can be used to relocate the bearing.

Also, the bearing staying on the crank--- was that after a cold press-out or after you heated the case?

 

[blsnelling]

-- the depth of the pto side bearing is critical.

A BIG +1.

 

[catch_me-WV]

Nice. Plenty of ways to rebuild a bottom end but one word of caution on Stihl's-- the depth of the pto side bearing is critical. If it protrudes too far, the oiler worm gear will not spin freely and may get damaged. Put your oiler on while centering the crank after assembly. If there's an issue, a large washer and socket can be used to relocate the bearing.

Also, the bearing staying on the crank--- was that after a cold press-out or after you heated the case?

That was the old flywheel side bearing that came out with the crank. That was cold. I just tapped it out of the case with a soft blow hammer after I split it.

I was already planning on using the old oiler to get the bearing placement right, but thanks for the heads up.

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[BuckthornBonnie]

Ok. Rarely the bearing staying on the crank after a split is telling of a spun bearing that's loose in the case. Unlikely in your situation, though (flywheel side).

 

[catch_me-WV]

As far as the PTO bearing goes, I gently heated it up with a soldering iron (not touching) through the inner race and it dropped right into place. I did leave it slightly proud of where it should be so I can drive it to the correct depth upon assembly. I'm going to heat the case side to hopefully have it drop right into place and allow me to more easily set the bearing depth. Waiting on my gasket kit to do that, though. I have to say I was a little tempted to just use some motoseal on it, but I like the idea of running a gasket better.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

Gasket is needed for indexing crank clearances. A little sealant on the gasket won't hurt, thought.

 

[catch_me-WV]

Gasket is needed for indexing crank clearances. A little sealant on the gasket won't hurt, thought.

I was thinking it might tighten the clearances a bit to omit the gasket. Didn't really like that idea. Not sure if I'll use anything on it or not, though. It just seems like a bit of extra trouble. They seem to do just fine on their own, given a decent sealing surface on the case halves, am I wrong?

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[blsnelling]

I recommend removing that PTO side bearing from the crank and installing it into the crankcase against the oil pump housing as designed.

 

[catch_me-WV]

I recommend removing that PTO side bearing from the crank and installing it into the crankcase against the oil pump housing as designed.

Is there any particular reason I can't install it successfully as I have it? Not trying to be short or contradictory. As I said before, this is my first rebuild. I would think that trying to remove the bearing from the crank now might do more harm than good if there isn't. Especially since I don't have a bearing puller.

Just checked my tracking as well. Looks like I should have the gasket kit tonight. Now whether I have time to work on this tonight or tomorrow is another story...

 

[catch_me-WV]

Well I got my gasket kit yesterday and put the halves together (I'll get some pictures tonight).

Ran into a bit of a road block, though. It seems the PTO side bearing shifted in on the crank and it's not seating against the oil pump fully. The crank is obviously under a bit of tension from it, since it won't spin freely. I tried tapping the end of the crank with my non-marring hammer, but any improvement is minimal and the bearing isn't moving any appreciable amount.

I know, I know, I should have put the bearing into the PTO side of the case instead of on the crank, but it's already assembled now... Not looking for any crap about that. This is my first build, so mistakes are just part of the learning experience! And yes, I will be installing the bearings into the case halves in the future...

Is there any reason I can't put the entire short block into the oven at about 250? I'm thinking I can get it to seat with a lot less stress on things with little more heat involved. Then of course I will center the crank after it cools (if need be). Just curious if I have to worry about the case gasket handling the heat, I suppose.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

Hmmm. Try tapping on both ends of the crank?
A punch in the crank end will move things.

 

[catch_me-WV]

Hmmm. Try tapping on both ends of the crank?
A punch in the crank end will move things.

I tried and didn't have any luck with seating the bearing. That's why I was asking about putting the whole crank case in the oven. I'm not too comfortable hitting it much harder than I did already.

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