046 Magnum- beginning of the end?

[pioneerguy600]

Yeah I meant crank seal. Is it worth paying sixteyfour dollars to fix, the part is 7 bucks? I wouldn't mind doing it myself and do a BB kit. But none of this I have ever done before. Any way to get installation instructions?

They are really easy to remove and reinstall for many of us that have worked small engines for many years. There a lot of threads on here covering removal and replacement. To do it though you need access to some tools, a flywheel puller is just about a must have, tools to pull the seal and a piece of water pipe or deep socket to reinstall the new seals. To buy all these things it would cost more than the $64. . If this is the only saw you plan on re-working then it is not really worth buying the tools necessary to do the job . If you decide to do it yourself there are lots of guys on here that can guide you through removal and installation.

Pioneerguy600

 

[SkippyKtm]

Did they check the Crankshaft bearing cages (especially on the pto side)? I only say this because the plastic cages tend to degrade and crack over time, allowing the bearings to "bunch up".This will cause the crank to slightly wobble and tear up the new seal(s) as well.

 

[wyk]

Did they check the Crankshaft bearing cages (especially on the pto side)? I only say this because the plastic cages tend to degrade and crack over time, allowing the bearings to "bunch up".This will cause the crank to slightly wobble and tear up the new seal(s) as well.

If you are going to pull the shaft(if ya know wut I meen), replace those bearings on yer 046.

 

[SkippyKtm]

Here's just a few photos of 046/MS460 Bearing ugliness:
<a href="http://s518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/?action=view&amp;current=PICT5048.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/PICT5048.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/?action=view&amp;current=PICT5047.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/PICT5047.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/?action=view&amp;current=PICT5051.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/PICT5051.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[steelhead kid]

I was wondering what would have caused the crank seal to go out. Thanks guys. I will definately have them check the bearing cages. And the bearings for bunching. Is this a big job if they need replaced?

I hope this saw does not end up being a money pit. So Its worth it to fix?
Total work now is Crank seal, bearings, and BB kit.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I was wondering what would have caused the crank seal to go out. Thanks guys. I will definately have them check the bearing cages. And the bearings for bunching. Is this a big job if they need replaced?

I hope this saw does not end up being a money pit. So Its worth it to fix?
Total work now is Crank seal, bearings, and BB kit.

At that stage they are really only worth fixing if you can do all the work yourself and then only if you plan on keeping the saw. You would be very lucky to recover your investment if you decided to sell, but it would be a great learning experience if you decide to go for it. IMO.
Pioneerguy600

 

[steelhead kid]

I may have them do the crank seal and bearings since they said I am already half way in on the job I might as well pay the other $32. They have all the tools and will steam clea the saw which is nice. I'll probably do the BB kit myself. Do I need any special tools for this?

The way i see it for about $200 ill have my saw back and it will be stronger and should last for years. I hate to see that saw go. Is there other things that are going to need to be replaced, liked the craburator, oil pump, ect? maybe its time.

 

[steelhead kid]

So really my problem has been trailed back tothis:

Plastic bearing cages failled> bearings bunching> Crank seal leak> scored piston and cylinder.

I do not want to put a repair on top of an existing problem. Is there anything else to consider, like what caused the plastic cages to fail?

 

[pioneerguy600]

I may have them do the crank seal and bearings since they said I am already half way in on the job I might as well pay the other $32. They have all the tools and will steam clea the saw which is nice. I'll probably do the BB kit myself. Do I need any special tools for this?

The way i see it for about $200 ill have my saw back and it will be stronger and should last for years. I hate to see that saw go. Is there other things that are going to need to be replaced, liked the craburator, oil pump, ect? maybe its time.

Whenever I do a total rebuild then I would replace both bearings and seals, if the opposite bearing runs smooth then at least check the retainers for signs of cracks, replace both seals and a new case gasket. The carb should also be rebuilt to get a good running saw with crisp throttle response. The BB kit needs only a T27 long shaft driver tool to install the base screws. Does not matter if it is a socket drive, T handle or a L shaped one, even a screwdriver handled one can be used if you can apply enough twist to it to set the screws to 8.5 ft lbs torque. Brake band should also be checked, they often wear thin in spots.
All the other running parts will need to be checked for wear, clutch drum, shoes, springs, bearing, drive rim, oilpump drive has plastic threads, the oil pump itself may need an overhaul. Total cost will be added up when the game is over.
Pioneerguy600

 

[oscar4883]

Did the bearing take a s? They may be just fine. Hopefully they are because that is a major expense. I think they are saying they are half-way there because they maybe removed the clutch or flywheel to diagnose the seal issue. That is a LONG was from bearing replacement. The bearings alone probably run about 40-50 bucks. The 64 sounds like seal replacement and troubleshooting to me. Unfortunately the site is having issues with the search function, but, like the other guys saw, the members here can help if you decide to do this yourself.

 

[steelhead kid]

Your right...Ouch. I thought he could slap new bearings in when he does the crank seal. Well... Can he at least check the bearings easily? Or is that expensive too.

I wish I knew how to rep, you guys have been a big help so far. I may have to take you up on yor offer and get some guidance on tis rebuild.

 

[steelhead kid]

Any other reasons a crank seal goes out?

 

[pioneerguy600]

Your right...Ouch. I thought he could slap new bearings in when he does the crank seal. Well... Can he at least check the bearings easily? Or is that expensive too.

I wish I knew how to rep, you guys have been a big help so far. I may have to take you up on yor offer and get some guidance on tis rebuild.

The cases have to be split to install bearings, the shops around here charge $250. to do that. They can check only the outside of the bearings when replacing a seal.
Pioneerguy600

 

[oscar4883]

He can check the bearings when he does the seals easy enough. If they are good, then you can do the top end youself. Make sure they pressure/vac tested the saw in order to find the bad seal. That way you will know that the seal is likely the cause of the seizure. In general, it is a good idea to replace the fuel line and filter ans well as the impulse line on a saw that has seen some good use. THose parts are cheap. LOL It is a good idea to re-test the saw for air leaks after the top end is done. This requires a few special tools but your shop could do it for you too. The top end repair does not require that many special tools. A T-27 torx, ring compressor, and a micrometer/caliper for checkin squish. You can get away with a homemade ring compressore but the Baileys unit is nice and very affordable.

 

[steelhead kid]

Ok. Hopefully the bearings are good . What is squish ? LOL.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Ok. Hopefully the bearings are good . What is squish ? LOL.

The clearance between the piston and cylinderhead.
Pioneerguy600

 

[steelhead kid]

I did some searching about squish and how you can adjust it by sanding the base and the use of gaskets. My intention is to bolt on the BB kit and use the NWP gasket from Baileys. I plan to bolt this on without measuring the squish. Bad idea? measuring it and adjusting it seems to be somewhat complicated.

 

[mtngun]

My intention is to bolt on the BB kit and use the NWP gasket from Baileys. I plan to bolt this on without measuring the squish. Bad idea?

You would prolly be safe but personally I feel better checking the squish just to be sure. Only takes a few minutes.

 

[Outlaw5.0]

Measure it, better to be safe than sorry.

 

[oscar4883]

Here is a rather poor picture of the set-up for checking squish. Mind you, the pisotn would be mounted on the rod. A dab of grease and a small piece of solder and thats it other than the measuring tool. Check it in several spots and make sure the solder is positioned so that it hits the squish band. Solder can be had at Radioshack, If you notice the carb screwdriver has a small notch filed in it off-center. That is to aid in the installation of the wrist pin clips.