24" Bar comparison - stihl cannon tsumura sugihara

[SawTroll]

Unless you consider the .08 to .13 of metal, times the number of drive links, in total weight savings on the spinning chain. Surely could be a factor in limbing and cookie cutting.

It is a tiny factor, but remember that the difference vs. .058 only is present in the drive tangs. The upper part of the drivers of .050 chain is .058 with Oregon and .063 with Stihl chain.
Today .050 with regular .325 and 3/8" sort is an artificial gauge, that is made only because it is "traditional" in some areas.

A lighter chain at least theoretically can spool up a little faster, but it also will carry less momentum in the cut. I don't think anyone will notice either factor.

 

[MustangMike]

For 20" bars I find the .050 to be just fine, but I prefer .063 for the longer bars, when I can find it around here. While I run .063 on 24" & 28" bars, ironically my 36" bar is .050, was just a deal I could not pass up.

When milling, I like to use my 24" wide nose bar, which is .063.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

I was inquiring about a 261. They told me the carb was electronic and that it would run like crap if it wasn't full throttle all the time.

Your dealer sounds like he ain't too smart. Chainsaws are jetted to idle or run WOT. That's it. Running them with the throtte anywhere between can create a lean condition. Fortunately, your dealer was kind enough to demonstrate how lack of knowledge about saws before you mistakenly bought one from him or asked him to repair something.

About other two strokes, though, stuff like dirt bikes, snowmobiles, quads, etc are much more complicated and are designed to have a much broader power band. They can definitely run at partial throttle.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

For 20" bars I find the .050 to be just fine, but I prefer .063 for the longer bars, when I can find it around here. While I run .063 on 24" & 28" bars, ironically my 36" bar is .050, was just a deal I could not pass up.

When milling, I like to use my 24" wide nose bar, which is .063.

I guess there's guys that will regroove a bar for you. I suppose it's not rocket science, but there's probably some specific machinery to do it. Probably cost prohibitive, though if only because if shipping costs and buying new loops of chain.

 

[Officer's Match]

It is a tiny factor, but remember that the difference vs. .058 only is present in the drive tangs. The upper part of the drivers of .050 chain is .058 with Oregon and .063 with Stihl chain.
Today .050 with regular .325 and 3/8" sort is an artificial gauge, that is made only because it is "traditional" in some areas.

A lighter chain at least theoretically can spool up a little faster, but it also will carry less momentum in the cut. I don't think anyone will notice either factor.

I know ST, I was just, ahem, pulling your chain.

Your dealer sounds like he ain't too smart. Chainsaws are jetted to idle or run WOT. That's it. Running them with the throtte anywhere between can create a lean condition. Fortunately, your dealer was kind enough to demonstrate how lack of knowledge about saws before you mistakenly bought one from him or asked him to repair something.

About other two strokes, though, stuff like dirt bikes, snowmobiles, quads, etc are much more complicated and are designed to have a much broader power band. They can definitely run at partial throttle.

Exactly, on all points.

 

[SawTroll]

I know ST, I was just, ahem, pulling your chain.

.

No problem, and none of it really is a big deal - except that the popularity of .050 gauge in parts of the US is messing up the market for no good reason.

 

[SawTroll]

For 20" bars I find the .050 to be just fine, but I prefer .063 for the longer bars, when I can find it around here. While I run .063 on 24" & 28" bars, ironically my 36" bar is .050, was just a deal I could not pass up.

When milling, I like to use my 24" wide nose bar, which is .063.

The basic reason for such a "mess" is of course the totally unnecessary existence of the artificial .050 gauge.

.050 might have been meaningful if it cut a narrower kerf - but it doesn't with todays chain in regular .325 and 3/8". With Oregon it cuts the same kerf as .058, and with Stihl the same as .063.

 

[Unionvillecountryboy]

He does like most of the world, and stays with .058 and .063 in .325 and 3/8" - which makes the most sense the way chains are configured today.
The only valid reason to want .050 today is local availability of chain, in the areas where it for some odd reason is the most common gauge.

And 10+ .050 chains laying around

 

[Unionvillecountryboy]

Your dealer sounds like he ain't too smart. Chainsaws are jetted to idle or run WOT. That's it. Running them with the throtte anywhere between can create a lean condition. Fortunately, your dealer was kind enough to demonstrate how lack of knowledge about saws before you mistakenly bought one from him or asked him to repair something.

About other two strokes, though, stuff like dirt bikes, snowmobiles, quads, etc are much more complicated and are designed to have a much broader power band. They can definitely run at partial throttle.

Agreed. Familiar will all sorts of 2 strokes, just not so much on saws.

I was trying to explain I wanted a smaller saw than the 44 for random brush/clearing/limbing. He said the local electric service returned 10 pro 261 in favor of the 290/311 farm grade saw because they run better.

Although with a light bar, I'm seeing it may be my go to saw for everything, so I just may need a second instead.

 

[MustangMike]

I would trade a clamshell to get a 261 every day of the week! I was not impressed with the power/wt of the clamshells, they can run fast with a muffler mod, but lack to torque of a professional saw, and the weight is nothing to brag about.

And the new Ver II 261 is about 1/2 lb lighter yet! Would love to have one.

 

[Unionvillecountryboy]

I would trade a clamshell to get a 261 every day of the week! I was not impressed with the power/wt of the clamshells, they can run fast with a muffler mod, but lack to torque of a professional saw, and the weight is nothing to brag about.

And the new Ver II 261 is about 1/2 lb lighter yet! Would love to have one.

I don't know what a clamshell is.

I've got my eye on a 660 that looks mint, where can I post that to get feedback and see if it's priced well?

 

[SawTroll]

And 10+ .050 chains laying around

Some would of course have that problem if it was obsoleted....

...and others (likely many more) would have the opposite problem at some point.

Stuff has been obsoleted in the past despite such considerations though, and it may happen again if all the major actors in the market agree. I know of one major actor in the market that wants to obsolete regular .325 and 3/8" in .050, and at least one that likely would be happy to follow suit.

I still believe there is a long way to go before it is reality though, if it ever will be.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

I don't know what a clamshell is.

I've got my eye on a 660 that looks mint, where can I post that to get feedback and see if it's priced well?

Start a new thread with a title like "ms660 price check". Welcome to being addicted to buying chainsaws.

 

[Unionvillecountryboy]

Some would of course have that problem if it was obsoleted....

...and others (likely many more) would have the opposite problem at some point.

Stuff has been obsoleted in the past despite such considerations though, and it may happen again if all the major actors in the market agree. I know of one major actor in the market that wants to obsolete regular .325 and 3/8" in .050, and at least one that likely would be happy to follow suit.

I still believe there is a long way to go before it is reality though, if it ever will be.

So does my stock sprocket work with either .050 or .063? Essentially would all I need be a new bar and chains? because I am getting ready to buy a bunch of that stuff.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

So does my stock sprocket work with either .050 or .063? Essentially would all I need be a new bar and chains? because I am getting ready to buy a bunch of that stuff.

Yes, drive sprockets, either rim or spur will run any of the common gauges. Who knows, now that i say that there's probably some exception that I don't know about, but in general anyway, that's the case.

 

[MustangMike]

So does my stock sprocket work with either .050 or .063? Essentially would all I need be a new bar and chains? because I am getting ready to buy a bunch of that stuff.

You generally don't need to change the sprocket (unless going from 3/8 to .325, etc), but the bar and chain gauge must match. I mistakenly put .050 chain on a .063 bar, and it oiled like a pig, dripping everywhere!

 

[MustangMike]

I don't know what a clamshell is.

Farm level (not pro level) saws, 039, 290, 311, 039, 390 may be more. Half the case is under the crank, half over it is part of the cylinder. You can not delete a base gasket!

 

[Derf]

Since re-reading this thread i have a few questions.
1) Did Red Bull ever test the 36" tsumura LW vs the 36 Cannon narrow nose?
2) can you put a feeler gauge in the bar grooves with a chain, I'd sure like to know clearance on the Stihl, and Tsumura. I saw someone said earlier that the cannon had 0.002-0.003" clearance and Oregon bars had 0.005-0.006" clearance on the sides.

 

[MustangMike]

I know a big deal was made in one of the posts regarding how much lighter a 20" Sugi bar was than the Stihl ES, however, the Stihl E bar is within ounces of the Sugi and is less than half the price at $45 list.

Also, there was discussion regarding the price of the Stihl ES light bars, which are lighter than the Sugi, etc. They list them in 28", 32" and 36" and list price is from $135 to $150, so if someone is paying $200 for one (plus shipping) they are getting beat! For some stupid reason they offer the 28" & 32" in either .050 or .063, but the 36" only in .050 (which is why I guess that is what I got). Perhaps the 36" light bar in .063 is not rigid enough?

I also don't see the 24" E bars listed any more. I have two of them, and I'm glad I got them. I like running them on the 460s, and they did not break the bank (paid less than $50 each for them). The 28" light bars weight even less, but the cost!!!

 

[Officer's Match]

I paid $90 for my 28" Sugi, and about the same for my 24" Sugi.