3/16 vs 5/32 file

[redhawk23]

Hi,

Is there a way to determine which file size a chain needs? Is it just based on the saw?
I just sharpened a chain that for my 543xp that probably called for a 3/16 with a 5/32.

On another note, I’ve recently stopped using a file guide or my 2-1 sharpeners. I can definitely keep the angle better being able to see what I’m doing and a vice isn’t necessary. Any downside not using a guide?

Thanks

 

[pioneerguy600]

No downside once you have mastered getting the chain where you want it.

 

[redhawk23]

No downside once you have mastered getting the chain where you want it.

If I haven’t mastered it, what am I likely to do wrong? Cut into the chain?

 

[Jonny Quest]

Remember, you are sharpening the front edge and corner of the cutter. Keep in mind that the front of the cutter really is the bottom side of the leading portion of the top cutter plate. I've seen rookies completely miss the proper edges when hand-filing. It's not too difficult. Take your time and try not to back-drag the file. As the cutter wears away, you need to also file down the rakers to the proper height.

JQ

 

[redhawk23]

I’ve been cutting a lot of dry wood and my chains aren’t as sharp as I think they should be. The angles are right, the rakers are filed, and I think I’ve taken enough metal off the tooth. Should I be able to get a half used chain as sharp as a new one?

Thanks

 

[ihookem]

It should get just as sharp . However, I have seen the same thing. A mostly worn out chain has been harder to get real sharp.

 

[redhawk23]

Any thoughts on mismatching file size and chain?

 

[pioneerguy600]

I’ve been cutting a lot of dry wood and my chains aren’t as sharp as I think they should be. The angles are right, the rakers are filed, and I think I’ve taken enough metal off the tooth. Should I be able to get a half used chain as sharp as a new one?

Thanks

You are the one shaping the cutter not the file, the file is a dumb piece of steel but in the right hands it can shape many beautiful things. When filing chain it is you, your hands and eyes , just need to train them to do as you want. Getting the leading edges of the cutters that contact and shave the wood is what you need to aim for so you must control the file and don`t expect the file to make the chain sharp on its own. In general I like to see about 1/3 rd of the file diameter above the top plate when getting the top plate angle and its edge sharp, that same file may just about be flush with the top edge when filing out the gullet. Once you get the hook shape correct the chain will self feed if the depth gauges are also set correct. It is a balance of several components to get it right but once you do ,hand filing is all one wants to cut with if you get good enough at it. Changing hook and angles to suit the wood you are cutting comes very easily accomplished but it takes one some experimenting to see what works better. When I filed for the old reed valve saw engines it was a different set of parameters but as saws progressed and chain speed increased the chains could be shaped differently as the newer saws cut with speed and higher RPM ,the older reed valve saws used torque and a lot of .404 chain. Practice and more practice, keeping a sharp eye on what the file is doing will get you there but don`t expect to do so over night, it gets better and easier after every sharpening. I have been sharpening freehand for just 57 years now and I can still learn something new.

 

[redhawk23]

I used an electric Oregon grinder and didn’t get good results and I followed the instructions. Seems like there’s an art to getting a very sharp chain no matter what you use.

 

[Mad Professor]

I’ve been cutting a lot of dry wood and my chains aren’t as sharp as I think they should be. The angles are right, the rakers are filed, and I think I’ve taken enough metal off the tooth. Should I be able to get a half used chain as sharp as a new one?

Thanks

Any thoughts on mismatching file size and chain?

Should be able to get a chain to cut good until cutting teeth begin to wear off. Then I sharpen 1 more time and hang them on the wall, for use as "stumpers" or fence trees with wire use.

I've used a 5/32" on 0.325 chain and could still get it to cut well. Same for 3/8 Stihl chain that calls for a 13/64" but a 7/32" will work.

I wouldn't try a 5/32" on 0.404, or a 7/32" on 3/8 picco/lopro

 

[pioneerguy600]

I can sharpen a .404 chain with an 1/8' file as its not the file sharpening the chain or actually shaping the cutter, using a stated size file on a particular size chain infers the file will do all the work making the chain cut as well or better than new. The file helps being as it is a tool but must be guided by the person shaping the chain. To get some idea of what file to use try a file and see how it fits into the curvature of a new out of the box or fresh off the reel chain, that is just a starting point but at least a starting point. Knowing what an actual sharp cutter should look like is what one strives to attain in free handing.

 

[huskihl]

You can always use a smaller file on a larger chain, but it’s not as simple as filing in one spot and pushing in one direction. You actually have to tailor the shape a little bit to match that of a larger file.

Typically, a 5/32 file is for 3/8 lo pro and 3/16 is for .325

 

[pioneerguy600]

You can always use a smaller file on a larger chain, but it’s not as simple as filing in one spot and pushing in one direction. You actually have to tailor the shape a little bit to match that of a larger file.

Typically, a 5/32 file is for 3/8 lo pro and 3/16 is for .325

Very true, where shaping the cutter comes into play.

 

[huskihl]

Very true, where shaping the cutter comes into play.

I was typing that out as you posted. We were covering mostly the same thing

 

[heimannm]

Jerry's point about some % of the file above the tooth is quite critical. You will see suggestions of anything from 17% to 33% as he suggested. The point is the file does not just drop into the tooth an cut away, you must hold the file so some % is above the tooth, otherwise you end up with an extremely thin cutting edge that will not hold up for long.

Hold the file at 90° to the bar for most semi-chisel chains as shown in the lower right hand of the illustration, this also works for most round filed chisel chain. Once you have all of the other points fully addressed you can try working on the 10° up angle on round filed chisel to see if you can tell any difference.

Mark

 

[huskihl]

View attachment 1168197

Jerry's point about some % of the file above the tooth is quite critical. You will see suggestions of anything from 17% to 33% as he suggested. The point is the file does not just drop into the tooth an cut away, you must hold the file so some % is above the tooth, otherwise you end up with an extremely thin cutting edge that will not hold up for long.

Hold the file at 90° to the bar for most semi-chisel chains as shown in the lower right hand of the illustration, this also works for most round filed chisel chain. Once you have all of the other points fully addressed you can try working on the 10° up angle on round filed chisel to see if you can tell any difference.

Mark

We’ve seen in a sharpening related fb group how many members only talk about the 10° difference in top plate angle being what causes speed vs longevity. And many of them laugh at you when you mention the potential 40° difference in upper side plate angle (due to file height) as having way more to do with speed vs longevity. Everything most people ever learn is what they read on the package when it says 35° top to cut fast and 25° for durability in hardwood

 

[rms61moparman]

The file size recommendations are right there on the chain box.
You will have to develop your sharpening style to what you cut.
Green wood cuts easier than dry hard wood, therefore with green wood you can add a little more hook and still have a fast cutting long wearing chain.
Softer woods can take a deeper raker and still not over work your saw.
The important thing is to sharpen your chain and cut a tank full. Make the adjustments in your filing and cut another tank full, then compare the piles (and your fatigue level) and see which works better for you.
I like a sharper side angle than most and am prone to needing more breaks than my younger cutting partners, so the time spent for touching up my chain and refueling/oiling keeps me from cutting while dangerously fatigued.
You have to develop your filing to what works best for you.



Mike

 

[76dorihe]

It should get just as sharp . However, I have seen the same thing. A mostly worn out chain has been harder to get real sharp.

What’s the difference between “real” sharp and dull and why can’t a used chain achieve it?

 

[Franny K]

What’s the difference between “real” sharp and dull and why can’t a used chain achieve it?

I am thinking mostly worn-out chain means the side of the cutters is damaged farther back than the top.

 

[holeycow]

I’ve been cutting a lot of dry wood and my chains aren’t as sharp as I think they should be. The angles are right, the rakers are filed, and I think I’ve taken enough metal off the tooth. Should I be able to get a half used chain as sharp as a new one?

Thanks

A half used chain is just about where a chain really starts cutting good. There's more room for chips.