441C-M problems: erratic low power, dies after idling, etc.

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Jon1270

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@blsnelling

A tree service that I get firewood from asked me to look at a 441C-M they've been having problems with. Their complaint was that it didn't have any power in the cut. They said they'd had the carb rebuilt by the dealer a couple of months ago.

This is my first M-Tronic project, so I'm still getting my bearings. I checked all the fundamentals -- I looked at the piston, checked compression, did pressure and vac tests on the motor and fuel line, and pressure-tested the carb to confirm the metering valve was sealing. All of that checked out fine. Metering lever is set flush with the carb body. Couldn't find any damaged wiring. Plug looks good. Fuel filter was dirty, so I replaced it, but I didn't find any obvious smoking guns.

After putting it back together I did the M-Tronic reset procedure and took it out for a test-run, noodling some large rounds of red maple. Its behavior is really erratic. Most of the time it hesitates a bit when accelerating from idle. Sometimes it bogs down under even the slightest load, but then it will get going and make all sorts of power and cut beautifully. If I set it down and let it idle for 30 seconds or so, it will die the moment I pick it up, as if fuel is puddling in the intake or crankcase. When this happens it will refuse to restart unless I hold the throttle open, which makes it easy.

I found a few old threads about similar 441 problems from the last couple of years, with suggestions to adjust the metering lever and fresh air butterfly set screw, replace the carb, replace the coil, buy a Husky... so, I've seen all of that. Since this combination of symptoms isn't a perfect match for what I saw discussed in other threads, I thought I'd post this and see if it rings any bells before I continue. TIA.
 
Check the intake tube and make sure it is clear. There was a strange issue with some kind of rubber washer lodging in the intake. I think that was on different model saw though.
 
Check the intake tube and make sure it is clear. There was a strange issue with some kind of rubber washer lodging in the intake. I think that was on different model saw though.

I did find a thread about that, but you're right: it was the 661.
 
take the carb off and pull the carb cap off then take the metering spring out and stretch it a 1/8 inch more. that should fix it
 
I'm assuming the coil was checked by the dealer who rebuilt the carb?
The carb being the initial problem leads me to believe bad fuel. If it needed rebuilt then it likely needs it again unless you completely changed your fuel when the carb was rebuilt. It is also possible that the carb needs replaced.
 
I'm assuming the coil was checked by the dealer who rebuilt the carb?
The carb being the initial problem leads me to believe bad fuel. If it needed rebuilt then it likely needs it again unless you completely changed your fuel when the carb was rebuilt. It is also possible that the carb needs replaced.

I do not know whether the coil was checked. Bad fuel is doubtful; it belongs to a tree service, and their other saws are working fine.
 
You're dealing with exactly what I did. It is most certainly a carb issue. It's very difficult to put your finger on exactly what the problem is. I fiddled and fiddled with the one I had to deal with. You have to make sure that the fresh air butterfly is completely closed at idle. If open at all you'll have issues. Playing with the metering level may have helped, but was not the primary source of the problem.

I'd recommend that you PM @mcobb2 . He had a 441C that was driving him crazy. I'm don't remember what his final solution was.
 
You're dealing with exactly what I did. It is most certainly a carb issue. It's very difficult to put your finger on exactly what the problem is. I fiddled and fiddled with the one I had to deal with. You have to make sure that the fresh air butterfly is completely closed at idle. If open at all you'll have issues. Playing with the metering level may have helped, but was not the primary source of the problem.

I'd recommend that you PM @mcobb2 . He had a 441C that was driving him crazy. I'm don't remember what his final solution was.
it was the metering spring he fixed
 
I'm not sure I follow the intended effect of the longer spring, given that the inlet closes as it is now, and the metering lever height wouldn't change.
 
Can't explain it myself but even after installing a Stihl 1066 carb kit it didn't make a difference. Tried adjusting all butterflies both directions and metering lever the only thing that cured it was extending the metering spring.


Sent from my iStump using Tapatalk
 
Can't explain it myself but even after installing a Stihl 1066 carb kit it didn't make a difference. Tried adjusting all butterflies both directions and metering lever the only thing that cured it was extending the metering spring.


Sent from my iStump using Tapatalk

Thank you. Do the symptoms I described sound like what you were up against?
 

This was after the carb kit. Better then it was but still annoying. I'll see if I can get a current video


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I lengthened the metering spring and took it out for another test run this morning. There was some improvement, insofar as unloaded acceleration is zippier and it doesn't seem to be stalling when disturbed after idling for a bit, but power in the cut is not improved. It did well if I kept the pressure off and let the chain self-feed at higher RPMs, but leaning on it even a little caused it to bog and stall.

A member here was kind enough to send me some information from Stihl's diagnostic manual. The section on solenoid failure modes described some familiar symptoms resulting from a leaking solenoid:

  • Poor idle
  • Flooding & dying at idle
  • Won't continue running in calibration mode
I didn't mention that last symptom yesterday, but I did have difficulty getting it to run in the cold start position long enough to complete the calibration sequence. If I had a spare trigger unit sitting around, I'd toss it in and try it. Sadly I don't, so that would be an expensive experiment.
 

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