9 HP not enough??

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Toxic2

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
245
Reaction score
98
Location
canada
Is it possiable that 9 hp isnt a big enough motor for my woodsplitter? I just finshed building one with all brand new parts/components and the motor seems to be struggling a bit. I split roughly 3/4 of a cord with it and it works just the motor doesnt seem happy.. My first thought was maybe the 9hp is too small and to get a 13hp..

specs are 16 gpm 2 stage pump

4.5 inch bore 24 inch stroke ram and proper woodsplitter valve..
 
A 9 hp. engine running a 16 gpm 2-stage should be perfect.If you are running the engine at 3/4 throtle or more the engine should not struggle unless it is out of tune or the relief is set to high.
 
Two questions.

What size hoses?
How many 90 deg elbo's on there?

1/2 hose is marginal with a 16gpm, and toss in a couple of elbos and you can cut the flow down in a hurry.
Which loads the motor...

One more question how hot is the oil getting? This is a indicator of the above situation.

I agree, a 9hp should have no trouble pulling that pump.

I like the 4 1/2 cylinder idea, great compromise!
 
A 9 hp. engine running a 16 gpm 2-stage should be perfect.If you are running the engine at 3/4 throtle or more the engine should not struggle unless it is out of tune or the relief is set to high.

I agree, thats what my Splitfire came with, works great, although I do wish it were just a little faster...
 
I've been questioning this HP thing for a while. My splitter is a 6.5 HP on a 22 ton. I've seen the 6.5 on a 26 and 27 ton. So now I wonder just how much does the engine matter. I know when it get on up to 28 and above it takes more engine, but it takes more pump too. So which is more important to splitter function?
 
If you are running the engine at 3/4 throtle or more the engine should not struggle...

A 9-HP, single cylinder, gas engine running at 3/4 throttle is making less than 5-HP... possibly less than 4-HP depending. Also, a hydraulic pump turning at less than rated RPM will not make maximum pressure or flow, causing more load on the engine and higher oil temperatures over time. Small, single cylinder, gas engines are designed to run at 3600 RPM when under any sort of load... running them at anything less will reduce their life expectancy.
 
I've been questioning this HP thing for a while. My splitter is a 6.5 HP on a 22 ton. I've seen the 6.5 on a 26 and 27 ton. So now I wonder just how much does the engine matter. I know when it get on up to 28 and above it takes more engine, but it takes more pump too. So which is more important to splitter function?

When you are comparing HP to tonnage.......cycle time has to be considered. With a small gpm pump and a large diameter cylinder even a small engine can make lots of tonnage - but the cycle time will be slow. There are 3 parts of the equation to be considered HP & Tonnage & Cycle Time......not just HP and Tonnage.
 
This motor is brand new but wont seem to hold an rpm when moveing the ram forward or back..at neutrual it seems to be fine..and sometimes it will hit the govnor when i am finished a stoke and rev way up..

My other thought was that maybe my filter could be blocked from break-in material? it only has maybe an hour of run time on it. Could this be a reason it bogs..?

I am going to get a picture of the lines today..there are a few 90 and i think that lines from the vavle to the ram are 1/2 inch because the ports on the cylinder were 1/2 inch..
 
My Iron and Oak splitter is a 26 ton unit, 12 second cycle time, 4.5 inch cylinder, 16 gpm pump. The engine is a 9HP Honda and it never struggles, and even with a tough log the engine rpm's don't drop much. I am not sure of the hyrdaulic hose size on the splitter and will check that tonight.
 
My Iron and Oak splitter is a 26 ton unit, 12 second cycle time, 4.5 inch cylinder, 16 gpm pump. The engine is a 9HP Honda and it never struggles, and even with a tough log the engine rpm's don't drop much. I am not sure of the hyrdaulic hose size on the splitter and will check that tonight.

Thanks i am interested to see what other units use as far as lines. I get a 10sec no load cycle time with mine but like i say ..the engine doesn't not sound happy..All the other splitters i have ever run never changed rpm when just moving the ram..Even before this engine was mounted on the splitter I was cursing it..When i bought it i bolted it to a big wooden spool and left it to run outside for a few hours to break in and it would occasional backfire and vary in rpm while running there..It also vibrates like a MF...

I will get the pictures of the hose later.. I really hope the hose are ok cause they were pretty expensive to make..
 
I built a 8hp homemade splitter with a 4.5 on it and to this day i have not gotten it stuck!!:msp_w00t:
 
Sounds like your engine may be having an issue. First thing to try with any small engine is replace the spark plug. Even if it runs, even if it looks fine, even if it will spark outside of the cylinder (i.e. no compression) replace it. You would be surprised how many times a bad plug is the problem and people have spent countless hours trying to figure it out. Second suggestion is fuel. If you are running ethanol mixed fuel in a small engine (i.e. the 10% stuff that all the gas stations sell now) you are going to have engine problems. Get real gas and clean all that ethanol crap out of you carb intake and valves. If you have been burning it long it has probably ate into you fuel lines too and the will start cracking and busting. I know that there are people that will tell you they have used E-10 in their small engines and never had a problem, but they need to add a word to that statement, YET!!!!!!!!! E-10 is a bad deal all around. You can get away with it in you car because of the higher flow rate and using it everyday, but in a low flow and long sit time app like a small engine it spells certain disaster.
 
Sounds like a tune or engine issue. It should handle the pump fine.

First, are you sure it is '9 hp'? Honda, and several others, and probably the china copies, have taken to putting big letters on the shroud 5 or 6 or 5.5, that has nothing to do with hp. I have a small Honda '5.5' that on the website is actually 4.6 hp at 3600, and doesn't reach 5 hp even at 4000 rpm. Dishonest, but technically legal marketing. Gee, we didn't say hp, you just assumed that.....

Second, do you know the pressure settings of the main RV, and of the unloading valve in the pump? Those may be too high, requiring too much hp to turn the pump.



Tons is cylinder size (area) times operating pressure. It has nothing to do with pump size or engine hp. It can be a hand operated piston pump or a car engine, but pressure times area is force. So, cylinder size directly defines the tons of the splitter. Many posts here about mfr uprating the tons, when the cylinder size would require much higher pressure to actually get what they advertise. A polite way of saying marketing lies and BS.....


Next, pump size and speed (gpm) define speed. Flow divided by the cylinder area defines how fast the cylinder moves.
Bigger pump = more flow = faster, but same force or tons.
Part throttle or full throttle = more engine rpm = faster, but same force or tons. (unless there is serious leakage)


Then, operating pressure times flow defines the hp needed to turn that pump at that pressure. If the minimum hp is met to turn the pump, adding more hp to the engine won't change force or speed.
It could however allow a higher unloading pressure setting before the engine runs out of power on the high flow low pressure setting, thus carry the same high speed on heavier loads before it slows down. But by itself, more engine hp won't give you more speed or more force unless something else is changed.
 
I was doing some pump research as I was considering upgrading my 9hp splitter with a 22gpm pump. What I have learned from general gear pump operation is that the pressure relief can be hit over a fairly wide range of RPM. I have seen some spec'd to reach full relief pressure (3000psi) from a low of 500 RPM all the way up to 3600 RPM. What does vary, and it is fairly linear, is the flow rate with RPM. Not sure this help your determine you problem but......
 
I checked last night and the hoses on my Iron and Oak with the 9 HP Honda are 1/2" diameter. The parts you have used are the same specs as my Iron and Oak....and it works just fine.

When you are running the ram in/out without load the pump is in the high volume/low pressure mode and the flow rate will be high and the friction loss in the hoses will be the greatest as the flow rate is high - but it should not be high enough to bog your engine down. When the ram comes in contact with the round to be split the pump will kick into the low volume/high pressure mode and the lower flow rate will reduce the friction loss in the hoses - and more of the engine power will be used to create the pressure in the cylinder.

From what you described about the way your engine runs - it sounds to me like it is running lean and not producing power. If this is a China copy engine - I suspect you got one that is not working well. A fellow at my office bought 2 mini bikes from Tractor Supply last Christmas that had Chinese engines. He had me go over them before he gave them to his boys - and one ran very well and the other one had very little power. The engine was running lean and I tried cleaning the carb and it didn't help - that engine just would not run well and did not make power like the other one.
 
here are a few pictures of the lines and their set-up.. hopefully everything there is ok..

I am starting to think i got a bad motor..i think the dealer did put reg gas in it when they do they inital start up... I did take the float bowl off but i didnt see anything in there.. weird thing about these chines motor is that there is no way to adjust the carb

zk3g2v.jpg


no68ah.jpg


35m2y5x.jpg
 
I would suggest taking all the fuel out and trying some Avgas 100LL fuel. The Avgas runs a little richer than normal gas - and considerably richer than ethanol fuel. If the problem is caused by the mixture being a little lean - the engine should run better on Avgas. This may not be the best long term solution - but it would help you to determine if the engine is the problem.

I have a Generac generator that is older and does not have an adjustable carb. When I bought it ethanol fuel was not around...and the generator ran fine. It has a feature that allows the engine to drop to an idle if you are not using electricity - then the engine speeds up if you turn on something - this works great when using the generator to run a compressor, welder or saws. When ethanol fuel came out the engine would stall when it tried to speed up - as the engine requires a richer mixture of ethanol and the carb can't be adjusted to supply it. The engine runs great on Avgas 100LL - and the added benefit is the fuel never goes bad and the generator is always ready if an emergency comes up and I need to use the generator immediately.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top