93-year-old froze to death, owed big utility bill

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"Atlanta cuts off an average of 7,422 water customers for nonpayment every month. It stopped service to 2,933 customers per month in 2007."

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2009/01/29/atlanta_water_complaints.html

So if one of the 7,422 water cut offs sits in the house and dies of dehydration then the City of Atlanta is a fault?

Logbutcher having compassion for the dead man is a separate issue than who is a fault for his death.

Not the same in my book at all.Its easy enough to go next door in the summer months when the weather is pleasant and borrow a bucket of water, not so easy to go next door in the middle of sub zero temps and borrow a bucket of heat.
 
Nice attitude. Gross stupidity. This is not our way, not the manner in which Americans are supposed to care. Start using some empathy and brainpower: WWII Vet, 90 years old, alone. Ever think you could be there ? Know anyone close to you in that situation ?
And under law, power companies are "public" utilities regulated by us, citizens.

TreeCo et. al. with this atttude, you have lost any respect on this site.


Gross Stupidity? If this guy was unable to pay a bill or make a phone call then he is not capable of living on his own. My point was not that he deserved to die for this. My point was that it wasn't the power company who failed, it is society that failed.

As far as public utilities being regulated by the public, that is a laugh. They are regulated by the government. This is not exactly the same. I'm sure the power company followed every requirement set by the "public utilities commision" for turning off somebody's power before they did so. Maybe the people responsible for setting up the steps for shutting of somebody's power should be brought up on manslaughter charges. They don't shut it off because you missed one payment. They don't even require payment in full to keep the power on. There are safeguards in place to keep things like this from happening, yet a man is still dead.

Everybody always wants to place blame, find a scapegoat. It makes us feel better. It isn't just the power company's fault. However it is easy to look at this big corporation and say "shame on you". Its easy to say somebody at that company should be punished for this mans death. In the end, nothing has changed. The real problem here is why somebody, unable to use conventional means of participating in society, is living by himself? Online banking is fairly new, checking accounts are not. E-mail is fairly new. Phones, not so much. There is nothing new about paying bills.

If your car runs out of gas on some railroad tracks, and a train hits you because you are waiting for somebody (who you haven't asked) to bring you gas, you took your own life. You could blame the people who drove by and didn't pull you out of your car, you could blame the gas station for not selling you enough gas to make it across the tracks. you could blame the train conductor. If you don't have enough sense to get out of the car when the train is coming, what the hell were you doing driving in the first place?
 
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First he had the cash to pay for his bills, so all arguments about him not having the money are now out the window they are moot, the cash for the bill was paper clipped to the bill.

If the person who installed the limiter knocked on this man's door and explained to him the purpose of the limiter and what it was supposed to do the electric company would have been paid. Did the electric company call this guy and explain anything to him, or was it all done electronically through the mail? A simple phone call by the electric company probably would have stopped this from happening. But, since the electric company failed to do so, then failed to keep track of when the limiter was activated, especially during dangerous weather conditions, they do have responsibility for this man's death.

Before anyone asks the question as to why this person didn't have a credit card or check book to pay his bills.

Put yourself in this man's shoes..
You are 93 years old, you probably have hearing and mobility issues. You lived through the Great Depression, currently all the news talks about is The Great Depression II so you keep your cash to pay for expenses because you do not want to lose your money in the bank. You are behind in your payments so you give the electric company a call, do you get a real person, most likely not you get one of those :censored: phone systems. Since 99% of those systems are poorly setup and almost impossibly to talk to a real person and when you do get to talk to someone the person doesn't speak English what are you to do? Then your power goes out, no explanation as to why so you sit there and wait till the power comes back on.

Note: He was not informed of the limiter he had no idea why his power went out or how long it would be out !!!

Yes a lawsuit does need to be brought against the electric company, they need to get there hands slapped good and hard maybe in the millions. Then they can change there policies so that this never happens again. Hopefully after that more electric companies will then follow the example and change there policies.
 
Gross Stupidity? If this guy was unable to pay a bill or make a phone call then he is not capable of living on his own. My point was not that he deserved to die for this. My point was that it wasn't the power company who failed, it is society that failed.

As far as public utilities being regulated by the public, that is a laugh. They are regulated by the government. This is not exactly the same. I'm sure the power company followed every requirement set by the "public utilities commision" for turning off somebody's power before they did so. Maybe the people responsible for setting up the steps for shutting of somebody's power should be brought up on manslaughter charges. They don't shut it off because you missed one payment. They don't even require payment in full to keep the power on. There are safeguards in place to keep things like this from happening, yet a man is still dead.

Everybody always wants to place blame, find a scapegoat. It makes us feel better. It isn't just the power company's fault. However it is easy to look at this big corporation and say "shame on you". Its easy to say somebody at that company should be punished for this mans death. In the end, nothing has changed. The real problem here is why somebody, unable to use conventional means of participating in society, is living by himself? Online banking is fairly new, checking accounts are not. E-mail is fairly new. Phones, not so much. There is nothing new about paying bills.

If your car runs out of gas on some railroad tracks, and a train hits you because you are waiting for somebody (who you haven't asked) to bring you gas, you took your own life. You could blame the people who drove by and didn't pull you out of your car, you could blame the gas station for not selling you enough gas to make it across the tracks. you could blame the train conductor. If you don't have enough sense to get out of the car when the train is coming, what the hell were you doing driving in the first place?

The idea of comparing what happened to this man and running out of gas, getting hit by a train, etc is ridiculous.
The cold hard facts of the matter has been and still is staring us right in the face.
The man had unpaid bills.True.BUT, as has been established by wiser heads than ours, the electric company had the SOLE ability to establish contact with the man before shutting of his power. The neighbors, the community, etc had no way of knowing that fateful morning that the power was to be shut off, thereby sealing his fate to a certain death.
By shutting off his power in sub-zero temperatures, the electric company failexd to implement a simple and effect safeguard. Warn the man in person that he now faces the temperatures of mother nature unaided by electricity.
Here again, the electric company made the SOLE decision to cut the power.

If you want to compare a train accident to a freezing, then establish the same principles. If the train had the capacity to stop, but did not feeling that the crossing was adequatly marked, and therefore he shouldnt be there to begin with, and then proceeded to run someone over.
Then you would have a fair comparrison.

Do I believe that justice should be sought for this man?Yes I do, but not for the reasons that you may assume.
History has taught us that corporations and often people in general only change their behaviour when they are delt with in a serious manner. I truly believe that if this had not been brought to a national level, then the electric company would not make any effort to change their ways. After all, if they had placed human life above profits, they would have never turned off the power in the middle of winter to begin with.
The electric company should be charged with a crime, not as punishment, but as a way to make them change their policies.


It is truly saddening to me to see this constant barrage of negative attitudes towards this topic. A man died only because of an uncarrying public utility, driven by one thing only.
The almighty dollar.
 
What I've learned through posting on internet forums is that while they're full of great information, they're also inevitably colored by each person's ideological bent. Common sense will typically be thrown out the window in order to grind a conservative/liberal ax every time which eventually degenerates into an online pissing match. This thread is 3/4 of the way there...

:popcorn:
 
First he had the cash to pay for his bills, so all arguments about him not having the money are now out the window they are moot, the cash for the bill was paper clipped to the bill.

If the person who installed the limiter knocked on this man's door and explained to him the purpose of the limiter and what it was supposed to do the electric company would have been paid. Did the electric company call this guy and explain anything to him, or was it all done electronically through the mail? A simple phone call by the electric company probably would have stopped this from happening. But, since the electric company failed to do so, then failed to keep track of when the limiter was activated, especially during dangerous weather conditions, they do have responsibility for this man's death.

Before anyone asks the question as to why this person didn't have a credit card or check book to pay his bills.

Put yourself in this man's shoes..
You are 93 years old, you probably have hearing and mobility issues. You lived through the Great Depression, currently all the news talks about is The Great Depression II so you keep your cash to pay for expenses because you do not want to lose your money in the bank. You are behind in your payments so you give the electric company a call, do you get a real person, most likely not you get one of those :censored: phone systems. Since 99% of those systems are poorly setup and almost impossibly to talk to a real person and when you do get to talk to someone the person doesn't speak English what are you to do? Then your power goes out, no explanation as to why so you sit there and wait till the power comes back on.

Note: He was not informed of the limiter he had no idea why his power went out or how long it would be out !!!

Yes a lawsuit does need to be brought against the electric company, they need to get there hands slapped good and hard maybe in the millions. Then they can change there policies so that this never happens again. Hopefully after that more electric companies will then follow the example and change there policies.

Exactly
 
^^^ right .. what if he just thought everything was straightned out and he was waiting for the power to come back due ot an outage , considering snow and ice stroms can do that ,also old people have a hard time navigating the phone message menus heck i have a hard time,anymore if your lucky enough to get routed ot the right desk for assistance after waiting on hold 25 minutes its often some foreign indian idiot who cant understand what your asking let alone speak fluent english to help remedy the situation,if i was 93 i would tell him to pound salt hang up then go back to rocking chair
 
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I see it as we are still only getting one side of the story. So far all the City/Utility company is saying is it was tragic and they are investigation. Who really knows how many late payment/shut off notices were sent out. $1000 for one elderly man he might had not paid for 6 months or more. He was hard of hearing, the utility guy might had pounded on the door and nobody came. Since he was living alone and couldn't go anywhere he probably hadn't shoveled his steps/sidewalk. So who knows it could had looked abandoned.

Yes I agree this was a tragic accident, but I don't like to lay blame until the investigation is over.
 
I read this on the news elsewhere this morning. The gentleman was a WW2 vet, had no kids and his wife had already passed some time back. It really saddens me to see our society giving handouts to people who are too damn lazy to work for a living and then turn around and let someone who fought for our country freeze to death.

:agree2:

This is just a disgusting example of the utility companies and failure of the guys neighbors! Who knows, this guy could of had mental issues and was not capable of making a rational decision.

Tes
 
The man had unpaid bills.True.BUT, as has been established by wiser heads than ours, the electric company had the SOLE ability to establish contact with the man before shutting of his power. The neighbors, the community, etc had no way of knowing that fateful morning that the power was to be shut off, thereby sealing his fate to a certain death.
By shutting off his power in sub-zero temperatures, the electric company failexd to implement a simple and effect safeguard. Warn the man in person that he now faces the temperatures of mother nature unaided by electricity.
Here again, the electric company made the SOLE decision to cut the power.

If you want to compare a train accident to a freezing, then establish the same principles. If the train had the capacity to stop, but did not feeling that the crossing was adequatly marked, and therefore he shouldnt be there to begin with, and then proceeded to run someone over.
Then you would have a fair comparrison.

Do I believe that justice should be sought for this man?Yes I do, but not for the reasons that you may assume.
History has taught us that corporations and often people in general only change their behaviour when they are delt with in a serious manner. I truly believe that if this had not been brought to a national level, then the electric company would not make any effort to change their ways. After all, if they had placed human life above profits, they would have never turned off the power in the middle of winter to begin with.
The electric company should be charged with a crime, not as punishment, but as a way to make them change their policies.


It is truly saddening to me to see this constant barrage of negative attitudes towards this topic. A man died only because of an uncarrying public utility, driven by one thing only.
The almighty dollar.

Yeppers!

With the economy going in the toilet fast! I am NOT looking forward to summer here, in Arizona. I live in a part of arizona that can and has gotten to 130 in the summer!!
This is not going to be pretty:taped:
 
:agree2:

This is just a disgusting example of the utility companies and failure of the guys neighbors! Who knows, this guy could of had mental issues and was not capable of making a rational decision.

Tes

I cannot see how you can blame the neighbors. I owned a house in California in the San Jose area. The hood there was rough. I knew the people that owned the houses on either side of me, but that was it for my social contact on that block. There were a lot of rentals, and a lot of cross-cultures there; us whites, several Indians (from India), a few Chinese and several Latinos. We all really had nothing to do with each other.

So there was a guy 2 doors down from me that I knew from a wave now and then, and that was it. His newspapers were piling up one year after Halloween so I tossed them under his porch. After another week I did the same, and went up and knocked on his door and looked in the window. Nothing seemed out of place. Then I went to Boston on a business trip for a week, and came back just before Thanksgiving. When I got back, my friend/neighbor to the far side of the guy 2 doors down came over for a beer, and said that they found the guy dead that morning. Seemingly he had died about a week before Halloween. That afternoon a team showed up in Hazmat suits and they removed the remains in stainless steel boxes, one box at a time. The guy had decomposed for a month in his bed, evidently where he had died of a heart attack. They had to remove all th sheetrosk in teh bedroom and tent the house, and fumigate it with ozone for 3 days to get rid of the smell and any potential diseases.

So what were we neighbors to do? I could not barge into the guys house just to see if he was dead. There was nothing out of place. I guess that something happened, or someone finally smelled his decomposing body. At any rate, neighborhoods are not all #### and Jane any more. In most places I lived in the west, most people do not know each other, there are high rates of real estate turnover, there are a lot fo rentals, and there are a lot of cross cultural boundaries in place in neighborhoods these days. Especially if you get freezing weather, and ice sotrms like we had this year in the PNW. I could not get out of my driveway, let alone cross town. I cannot imagine what it is like getting around Midland or Bay City in the middle of winter. That place makes the PNW look like a tropical paradise.
 
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