A coversation with the Sheriff

[Haywire Haywood]

Including this statistic????

Yup, nasty smelly thing with brown smears

Ian

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Kiss my rosy red ash.

It smacks of 1940s German occupied Europe: Show me ZEE papers....old man....must I call ZEE SS?

I would not live where I had to walk on eggshells.
Gotta have a PERMIT to have wood in the truck? I about imagine.

So take your complaint to the people who pass the laws. Don't blame the cops for the laws.

 

[dingeryote]

I'm afraid that unless you have lived here, you don't understand. Cedar thieving can be a problem, I suspect there are easier things to steal now. We have folks digging up newly planted clearcut blocks, then selling the stolen trees to landscapers. We have the music wood theft. We've had logs stolen.

Forests grow well here, and those items can bring in a hefty price. Not to mention that the landowner was going to sell the musicwood and then found it gone.

Mushrooms are worth $$$ too. I know one guy who made $600 one day picking them legally. Salal and beargrass are other items that get stolen.
You name it, it can bring in the dollars. And it gets stolen from the woods.

Around here, that's mostly off the federal land. That's money that could go into the treasury. I believe we sell at least a million dollars a year in permits here. Just in this location. That's quite an industry. And that is just to the pickers. They turn around and sell their stuff to another business.

I guess I should take a picture of the mushroom buyer tents that are now up and will be until it gets too cold. There's a whole group of migrants who do nothing but pick mushrooms, berries and whatever up and down the coast.

It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. It has everything to do with there being a problem with folks stealing or taking advantage of the system.

Yep!!

Lotsa outta work folks, Illegals, tweakers, meth heads looking to make a buck.
Other places and they would be stripping irrigation rigs and houses of copper line.

The biggest problem is a huge territory to cover and not enough eyeballs on it, and the influx of people that do not repect collectively owned property.

The matter of permits to haul your own wood is laughable, but sadly, understandable.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[mowoodchopper]

I'd have told him to go make love to his own touch-hole.
Sounds to me like in Oregon, you're GUILTY of a crime until you can convince the dooooosh bag cops otherwise.
The idea of being stopped by a sheriff because I have wood on my truck is absurd in the extreme.

Sounds good!

 

[teatersroad]

Kiss my rosy red ash.

It smacks of 1940s German occupied Europe: Show me ZEE papers....old man....must I call ZEE SS?

I would not live where I had to walk on eggshells.
Gotta have a PERMIT to have wood in the truck? I about imagine.

That's ok kid. if you's too askeerd to live here nobody's going to make you.

 

[redprospector]

In New Mexico you have to have a "permit" similar to the one posted earlier to transport any "woody product". You are supposed to have one to haul chips, or even sawdust from under your table saw. I asked a forest cop once if I needed a permit to carry a roll of TP in my truck. He said that the way the law is written, technically yes.
I think it's a bunch of BS. According to the constitution I am to be considered innocent until proved guilty. Not the other way around.

Andy

 

[fishercat]

I judge cops by their hair cut.

Local cops are ok and the older ones are usually great. My problem is with the new young cops that are thinking like revenue agents. All the ones I trained had that trained right out of them, but I watched others with small agencies solo with that mindset. They'll learn in time I guess.

As far as labs and growers it is a huge problem and would keep twice the number of cops busy. The mexican cartels are making a huge power play along the West Coast. They regularly kill people over payment and territory desputes. They bail people out of jail just so they can kill them; usually so they don't talk and name names in court.



Mr. HE

head shaved or military cut,nazi storm troopers,bad news!

Normal haircut (usually the older guys close to retirement) are usually just everyday folks like us.No problem.

always been very accurate.

 

[fishercat]

you're kidding right?

I'm afraid that unless you have lived here, you don't understand. Cedar thieving can be a problem, I suspect there are easier things to steal now. We have folks digging up newly planted clearcut blocks, then selling the stolen trees to landscapers. We have the music wood theft. We've had logs stolen.

Forests grow well here, and those items can bring in a hefty price. Not to mention that the landowner was going to sell the musicwood and then found it gone.

Mushrooms are worth $$$ too. I know one guy who made $600 one day picking them legally. Salal and beargrass are other items that get stolen.
You name it, it can bring in the dollars. And it gets stolen from the woods.

Around here, that's mostly off the federal land. That's money that could go into the treasury. I believe we sell at least a million dollars a year in permits here. Just in this location. That's quite an industry. And that is just to the pickers. They turn around and sell their stuff to another business.

I guess I should take a picture of the mushroom buyer tents that are now up and will be until it gets too cold. There's a whole group of migrants who do nothing but pick mushrooms, berries and whatever up and down the coast.

It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservativ same as ste. It has everything to do with there being a problem with folks stealing or taking advantage of the system.

Money that could go into the treasury???????????:jawdrop:


Like that isn't the same as stealing?

Not like we'll ever see that!

 

[Marc]

Fines for transporting wood products with no permit? Hmm... if it isn't a safety/road wear issue, it sounds kinda draconian to me.

 

[slowp]

Money that could go into the treasury???????????:jawdrop:


Like that isn't the same as stealing?

Not like we'll ever see that!

So, I guess you don't like highways, schools, mail, armies, cops, water, etc.

Yes, money into the Treasury. Back about 25 years ago, we had good roads in the woods, good schools (counties out here got a kickback) and still sent money to the U.S. Treasury by selling high priced timber. Good sales, good wood. I was told by an accountant, that next to the IRS, timber sales on Federal land returned the most money--most profitable. Now, you can spin this the opposite way if you just take the timber sales East of here, but that's another story.

Anyway, there were also trucks hauling a few loads at night, skipping the log scaling, etc. In other words, stealing.

Thanks to the environmental movement, you don't see a lot of timber being sold from here. The trees continue to grow. Our schools are asking for more money, for less kids, our timber communities are actually decreasing in population. Or turning into retirement communities. The roads in the woods are in horrible shape and are being torn up. They won't be reopened. More timber is now off limits. That includes young stands which were replanted with the intent of being harvested again. Oh well. Less income for the government. You know the rest.

 

[Upidstay]

Was it a quarantine issue? Not sure if they're trying to stop EAB or ALB from crossing into virgin forest. I know it's illegal to transport logging products from parts of Massachusetts and New York State due to insect infestations. Felled trees have to be chipped or burned on site, chipping to be 1/4" or smaller to make sure the critters are dead. Also could have been because people are poaching wood from private or state property. Few towns over from me they were really cracking down because some guy was stealing wood from a tract of land that was privately owned. Owner got pretty ticked off over the logging operation going on on his property. Funny thing is, all the guy had to do was ask, and the owner would have said OK.

 

[teatersroad]

Not to..uh well..condone laws or anything. But living here and seeing the endless hi-jinx folks are capable of (as they are in your burg too) it doesn't seem so outta whack. Like I said earlier, it is relative to the commodity of the region. We don't have any absurd laws about Maple Syrup or Corn or Hogs. Not a commodity here, and no big monied interest in protecting it. I'd be annoyed if I got questioned about the load of firewood I was hauling, but I's able to see beyond a little and know. The law wasn't written for cops, but cops use the laws that are written. And to say you'd just tell a cop where to shove his interest shows your ignorance, that you've never had to choose that battle nor are wise enough to let it pass.

Next up, folks hauling shed antlers. If you seen all the damage horn hunters do to private lands around here you might clue in to why what you are hauling could draw suspicion.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Fines for transporting wood products with no permit? Hmm... if it isn't a safety/road wear issue, it sounds kinda draconian to me.

Actually the intention of these laws is to catch wood thieves.

It is my understanding that if you do not have a permit and get a ticket, but you had permission to take the wood or purchased it, you can go into court with the person you purchased the wood from, as well as evidence, prove that you did not steal the wood, then they will dismiss the case.

AND keep in mind they will take into consideration what road you were on and what direction you were traveling. Same with a written permit.

If the permit is written as being from someone in a city in the valley, but you were stopped driving down from the mountains (driving toward where the permit says you purchased the wood), that is not going to look very good!

Also if you don't have paperwork and were driving down from the mountains, and you claim the wood was given to you by the land owner, they can ask you the specific location you got the wood from, then check the books to see who the legal owner of that property is, then they can ask that person if they gave you the wood.

There is the "gotcha" if the wood was taken without permission...

 

[ropensaddle]

Actually the intention of these laws is to catch wood thieves.

It is my understanding that if you do not have a permit and get a ticket, but you had permission to take the wood or purchased it, you can go into court with the person you purchased the wood from, as well as evidence, prove that you did not steal the wood, then they will dismiss the case.

AND keep in mind they will take into consideration what road you were on and what direction you were traveling. Same with a written permit.

If the permit is written as being from someone in a city in the valley, but you were stopped driving down from the mountains (driving toward where the permit says you purchased the wood), that is not going to look very good!

Also if you don't have paperwork and were driving down from the mountains, and you claim the wood was given to you by the land owner, they can ask you the specific location you got the wood from, then check the books to see who the legal owner of that property is, then they can ask that person if they gave you the wood.

There is the "gotcha" if the wood was taken without permission...

Well I have had a wood thieve hit the farm once and cut an oak but still am not a proponent of big brother permits doing any good. I have not had another incident since posting a sign with a riflescope picture and saying notice thieve we are watching you.

 

[Hddnis]

The laws were intended to stop forest products thefts. The primary lobby in favor was the big timber companies and state and federal forest agencies.

I really don't think that a law requiring permits is the proper way to address forest product theft because it makes an easily faked layer of enforcement. The guys taking stuff from the forest, sometimes literally by the log truck load, will have fake permits with them and are let go because of it. It isn't until later that it is discovered that the permit they showed on the stop for the burnt out plate light was a fake.

Best way is to catch them in the act and then properly punish them. They need to repay four times the value of what they stole. That will make it not worth their while to steal in the first place.

Permits simply cost the good honest people time and money. It makes everyone a victim because of a few bad apples. The permits are a lazy big brother way to address the problem.

That is my personal opinion. As a cop I dutifully checked permits on traffic stops. If someone did not have a permit, but could name who they got the wood from and had a phone number I would let them go. To me it made no sense to trouble honest folks and the law gave me the discretion to handle it that way.

Permits to cut wood on federal or state land are another matter and a charge for those is appropriate because it really is paying for a product recieved, same as buying groceries.



Mr. HE

 

[dingeryote]

Y'all might want to look at it this way.

The Feds can hire an army of contracted security folks to continiously monitor the forrests, or nab the thieves at the choke points and deter the activity.

The first choke point is on the roads.

The second is at the Mills.

After the Mill, it's kinda tough to determine the wood was swiped so it's gotta be the roads and Mills.

Mills are supposed to keep records and such, but backyard mills are a reality so it's back to the Roads.

I disagree completely with "Transporting wood" as a legal justification for disrupting a citizens right to free journey though, as there are 100 other things that would be more appropriate going on that could be used."Unsecure load", obstructed Lisc. plate(Trailer hitch/mud will do most times), crossing fog line, etc.

Y'all also forget that most of the roads out in that corner of the planet are Federal, and come with thier own baggage that would be deemed blatently unconstitutional on State and local roadways.
Us folks not surrounded by and supported by the Fed. just ain't used to such things, or thinking with that in mind.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[alderman]

When I was young, the timber tax was given to local districts. Now it goes into the state coffers and after they steal their part of it, the remaining 10% gets to where it was supposed to go.

When I was young we had a principal who also taught, coached, and took care of the grounds. We had one secretary in the office. We had 7 teachers for eight grades. Now we've got 12 high priced administrators, teachers aides, counselers + teachers for each class and special interest teachers.

When I was young if you acted up in class you got spanked at school, spanked at home, and you learned not to act up in class. Now when you act up in class they create a special school for you so you can go and act up all you want.

I agree that we can't cut timber like we used to but in todays political environment if we cut every piece of timber standing by the time the government got through wasting it we wouldn't see much improvement to the current condition.

 

[sneno77]

Best way is to catch them in the act and then properly punish them. They need to repay four times the value of what they stole. That will make it not worth their while to steal in the first place.

I agree..that is definitely the "best" way, but it's nearly impossible. I patrol close to 500k acres, and catching people in the act is nearly impossible, unless they are stupid and do the same thing in the same place numerous times. I depend heavily on "public participation" and it usually ends up well. Well meaning people that are doing the right thing don't like to see "cheaters" taking what they legally can't.
I love to cut wood, and I love being in the mountains, but I still can't stomach people that can't abide by a few simple rules that are there because a few folks took the easy route and took what wasn't their's to take.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I agree..that is definitely the "best" way, but it's nearly impossible. I patrol close to 500k acres, and catching people in the act is nearly impossible, unless they are stupid and do the same thing in the same place numerous times. I depend heavily on "public participation" and it usually ends up well. Well meaning people that are doing the right thing don't like to see "cheaters" taking what they legally can't.
I love to cut wood, and I love being in the mountains, but I still can't stomach people that can't abide by a few simple rules that are there because a few folks took the easy route and took what wasn't their's to take.

Well said. Like it or not, we do have to have some rules, or we have anarchy.

That sounds great to the immature, I know, but it's really hell on earth.

 

[redprospector]

Actually the intention of these laws is to catch wood thieves.

It is my understanding that if you do not have a permit and get a ticket, but you had permission to take the wood or purchased it, you can go into court with the person you purchased the wood from, as well as evidence, prove that you did not steal the wood, then they will dismiss the case.

See, that's what I don't care for. Not to mention the fact that it is un-constitutional, and therefore ilegal. Since the courts are only open from about 10:00 AM to about 4:00 PM, that means if I get ticketed for not having a permit then I have to take at least 1 day off of work. Not to mention draging the land owner into court. Then comes the time to collect the "evidence" required to prove my innocence. As I said earlier, we are supposed to be assumed innocent until proved guilty.
Around here tickets are issued for transporting woody products without a permit, not stealing wood. Just a way to put more money in the coffers.
One of our founding fathers said that the only purpose of a government is to ensure the liberty of the people. I think we'd be better of going back to our founding principals.

Andy