A little input from the pro loggers please?

[forestryworks]

a vertical bore cut is gonna give you about a 3" vertical gap in the block out face... plenty big for the eastern trees, maybe even overkill

and if you do block out the face... put a snipe in it
otherwise you'll be running for your life

 

[oldirty]

and if you do block out the face... put a snipe in it
otherwise you'll be running for your life

i was thinking the same thing. control to keep the wood on the stump but no idea where its going type of deal?

 

[RandyMac]

The block cut is mainly used on the larger trees, often old growth Redwoods. It about controlling how the tree falls, not just where it falls.
Take this Sugar Pine for example, it was about two feet from the chimney, with a few other things in the way further up the hill. I needed it to fall with the full length contacting the ground at the same time. I wanted it to fall easy, evenly, no twisting.

The object was to keep the tree on the stump, until it was horizontal to the ground, then have it be pushed forward, away from the house. Controll of the butt was critical, having it roll or bounce could have been messy.

Kinda hard to tell from this old photo, the holding wood doesn't show well, there was 3" on the left, tapering up to 6" toward the chimney side. Sugar Pines are moderately brittle, the hinge wood usually just snaps or tears. Anyway, it hit the snipe, moved forward, and hit like a paper sack full of wet sand.

 

[forestryworks]

i was thinking the same thing. control to keep the wood on the stump but no idea where its going type of deal?

right, the snipe gives the butt log direction all the way to the ground

 

[redprospector]

Your here to tell me that them smart pills he been taking are just rabbit-turds after all?

If it looks like a rabbit turd, and smells like a rabbit turd.....................Well, it's probably a rabbit turd.

Andy

 

[056kid]

This is just a kirf dutch. Precision falling with minimal splitability, AND butt pounding ground action,(so you dont loose any wood..

Your 3rd gen buddie probably did it to ensure as good as possible the butt from jumpin off the stump during the leveling.



A kirf dutch without a snipe is not really dangerous but may allow the tube to acomplish some nonsence sutch as severing one side of the hinge and ... Tree did not go where it was supposed to go..

A kirf dutch or box cut is great for keeping fibers glued. Next time you guys get a small heay leaner, make a first face cut about 1 inch and back cut leaving healthy hinge and see what happens..

Fall, fall, fall, commit to the face(snipe) and POP, doup,(butts on the deck) and POOFFF... She's LAID!!




Just my 2 scence.

 

[Burvol]

.

 

[Zodiac45]

Was it something like this?

Used mostly on big timber, it allows controll of how a tree falls, not just where.

RandyMac

+1 Nice Pix Randy and right on the money.

 

[forestryworks]

This is just a kirf dutch. Precision falling with minimal splitability, AND butt pounding ground action,(so you dont loose any wood..

Your 3rd gen buddie probably did it to ensure as good as possible the butt from jumpin off the stump during the leveling.



A kirf dutch without a snipe is not really dangerous but may allow the tube to acomplish some nonsence sutch as severing one side of the hinge and ... Tree did not go where it was supposed to go..

A kirf dutch or box cut is great for keeping fibers glued. Next time you guys get a small heay leaner, make a first face cut about 1 inch and back cut leaving healthy hinge and see what happens..

Fall, fall, fall, commit to the face(snipe) and POP, doup,(butts on the deck) and POOFFF... She's LAID!!




Just my 2 scence.

a kerf dutchman is not the same as the block out face

the block out face has a high success rate, dutchman's don't

 

[Bushler]

The best way to have a high sucess rate cutting a dutchman, is to know how. And that takes knowing your timber species, and knowing the physical limits on amt. of lean to compensate for, soundness of tree, wind, limb lean, etc.

I'd rather cut a dutchman than pound wedges to keep my trees in lead. But, conversly, I'd rather pound wedges than lose a tree over the stump and brush up my strip.

Experience comes from practice.

 

[forestryworks]

The best way to have a high sucess rate cutting a dutchman, is to know how. And that takes knowing your timber species, and knowing the physical limits on amt. of lean to compensate for, soundness of tree, wind, limb lean, etc.

I'd rather cut a dutchman than pound wedges to keep my trees in lead. But, conversly, I'd rather pound wedges than lose a tree over the stump and brush up my strip.

Experience comes from practice.

point taken

 

[Metals406]

I'd like to know more details about this "snipe", and where it goes on the face of the boxcut. When I was logging, an old feller showed me what he called a "walking-dutchman" to control the direction of fall... Actually, he used it to swing a Doug Fir that was top facing down hill, and he whipped that sucker side hill (slightly uphill). I was very impressed.

We always called the "snipe", the piece cut off the butt log on the landing, to get it ready to load on the truck. I have a feeling you guys are calling a snipe something different?

 

[forestryworks]

I'd like to know more details about this "snipe", and where it goes on the face of the boxcut. When I was logging, an old feller showed me what he called a "walking-dutchman" to control the direction of fall... Actually, he used it to swing a Doug Fir that was top facing down hill, and he whipped that sucker side hill (slightly uphill). I was very impressed.

We always called the "snipe", the piece cut off the butt log on the landing, to get it ready to load on the truck. I have a feeling you guys are calling a snipe something different?

if you don't already have it, buy this book High Climbers and Timber Fallers

it tells you everything you need to know about a snipe and more

i'll see if i can find a picture for a quick reference

 

[Ivan H.]

Was it something like this?

Used mostly on big timber, it allows controll of how a tree falls, not just where.

RandyMac

Thats looks like whats called a standard cut,and is it hung up?

 

[Ivan H.]

from what ive seen described here a box cut would come of of the tree with the notch looking like a square or rectangle, and a pie cut would have the notch looking like a piece of pie or a triangle.

Like the cut you would use to place a timber jack?

 

[Ivan H.]

And a humbolt could be called an upside down pie cut.

Andy

priceless

 

[Ivan H.]

So how do you make the vertical cut on the face, a plunge cut?

standerd

 

[Ivan H.]

You nailed it!

Vertical plunge cut, with an 88 running a 3 foot bar!

Matt is a 3rd generation logger, so I pretty much kept my mouth shut and watched him like a hawk.

These loggers do some trippy stuff, like running their chains so friggin loose it made me cringe! Just watchin matt matt sharpen that 88 was a trip.

Almost every pro logger apparently runs square ground 404 skip chisel chain that they can sharpen when away from their silvey flat chisel sharpeners by using three sided triangular hand files. Watchin matt sharpen his loose chained 88 was a treat. He'd sit right on the ground under the target tree grab one of the three plastic wedges in his pouch, pull the loose chain out from the bar and stuff that wedge between the bar and chain, and give each cutter exactly three swipes with his triangular file as he pulled the wedge in and out working the chain around. But the best part was his ambidexterous use of both hands to sharpen both left and right cutters alternately in one complete rotation of the chain on the bar.

The fluidity of his chain sharpening in the field really impressed me along with his boxcut felling of big hollow coulter pines. The man certainly seemed to know his stuff.

And yes Forestry he popped the pie out with an axe.

jomoco

that's right that's how we do it in the pacific north west ,and if he throws that chain he'll roll right back over the tip and back on the bar.

 

[Ivan H.]

I'm gonna try that vertical plunge box number next time I'm falling, sounds like it could have some nice control.

Are you serious,you never heard of a standard cut

 

[Ivan H.]

a vertical bore cut is gonna give you about a 3" vertical gap in the block out face... plenty big for the eastern trees, maybe even overkill

and if you do block out the face... put a snipe in it
otherwise you'll be running for your life

are you talking about boreing into heavy leaners to avoid baberchair ?