A Safer More Efficient Tree Industry Future?

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jomoco

Tree Freak
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It has long been my contention that today's tree industry leaders, or powers that be, are an old boys club that does not represent the best interests of the average tree worker.

A glaring proof of this grisly reality dealing with life and death issues for average treeworkers is the rising numbers of modern whole tree chipper fatalities, and the stance taken on this issue by the current leaders of our industry today. Which is only conducive to the interests of WTC manufacturers, not the life and well being of literally thousands and thousands of treeworkers operating WTC's in the field every work day. Essentially exposing thousands to the hazard of suffering a slow medieval form torturous death unthinkable to inflict on the most evil mass murderers in today's modern society.

How many WTC operators have suffered this medieval form of death since WTC's were introduced onto the market in 1989? Over 60 and rising.

What do our industry leaders recommend to prevent and lessen the numbers of such grisly death and dismemberment? Better training and chipper feeding protocols enforcement measures.

What do both federal and state OSHA, NIOSH and FACE officials recommend to lessen the numbers of WTC fatalities? A two man minimum WTC operator policy being established in the tree industry.

Which begs the question of why our current industry leaders have chosen to back the practice letting a single operator feed WTC's. If they make a mistake? Too bad.

The discriminatory hypocrisy on full display here is glaring. Our leaders would never dream of actively recommending a hazardous tree be climbed and worked on by a single climber alone. Indeed they've created best practices and policies require a qualified second climber be present on the jobsite. Even sometimes going so far as setting a secondary rescue climbing line in the tree being worked just in case.

Clear objective proof that the leaders at the helm of this industry today put a far higher value on the climber's life and well being, than that of a lowly chipper operator feeding a huge 200 horsepower WTC alone. So much so that they've chosen to ignore the number one recommendation
Of state and federal officials to prevent these gruesome tragedies.

My bringing this matter up for discussion and debate among my peers in this biz seems to invariably lead to thread lock downs and censorship. Even on some ostensibly professional tree industry forums. It's been many years since I've posted anything at AS.

Should be interesting whether opposing points of view to this industry's status quo will be allowed at AS today?

jomoco
 
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It's been many years since I've posted anything at AS.jomoco
Why is that? Why now?

Anyway, I can agree with most of what you've written. I think that 60 deaths number is probably way low. Every seen that show How it's Made? Some pretty cool stuff on there showing manufacturing processes. In a couple of those they have these huge machines that are stamping pieces of steel into forms or cutting metal and the machine won't operate unless both hands on depressing a handle on either side so you can't have 1 in the way. But that's a pretty controlled environment compared to treework. Having 2 guys , 1 holding a safety or something might not be a bad idea. Think it'd be better than all of the goofy bars like on the vermeers that you have to lean against- towards the inlet actually!

Haven't seen this horse before, where was it beat on? the buzz or something?
 
I don't have time right now to read the 16 pages on the other forum right now, but I will.

I've never run a big chipper, but I've been working with farm machinery for my whole life, and spent the last 20 years working in a metal fab shop running and setting the presses Todd mentions, so I have a pretty good idea of what industrial safety is.

Not gonna lock this down just yet, but no promises if there's no intelligent conversation.

From a devils advocate point of view, maybe we should require two drivers in all cars, in case the main driver is busy texting and fails to notice the red light?
 
Why is that? Why now?

Anyway, I can agree with most of what you've written. I think that 60 deaths number is probably way low. Every seen that show How it's Made? Some pretty cool stuff on there showing manufacturing processes. In a couple of those they have these huge machines that are stamping pieces of steel into forms or cutting metal and the machine won't operate unless both hands on depressing a handle on either side so you can't have 1 in the way. But that's a pretty controlled environment compared to treework. Having 2 guys , 1 holding a safety or something might not be a bad idea. Think it'd be better than all of the goofy bars like on the vermeers that you have to lean against- towards the inlet actually!

Haven't seen this horse before, where was it beat on? the buzz or something?

Actually the Vermeer feed chute bump bars are such a pita to get any true production out of without a second operator leaning on the bypass button? They pretty much require two operators to get a decent production rate out of. Making the big Vermeer chippers considerably safer to operate providing two operators are used to feed them.

Kinda ironic, but nonetheless true in my experience

jomoco
 
So, what models are you considering "whole tree"? Vermeer labels one machine, the WC2300XL, as whole tree on their site. That's a 440HP machine. I can't imagine any one, two, or however many guys feeding that thing by hand being close to efficient. Something that size has to be mechanically fed to keep it productive.

You mean to tell me there's tree services out there running a machine this size to chip BRUSH? That's like mowing my lawn with one of these:

bigm_001.jpg
 
JOMOCO, Is that you in that Dr Sillette vid of the redwoods?
 
I consider any hydraulically fed chipper with over a 12 inch wood eating capacity a WTC Steve.

I'd love to hear some objective discussion on the industry coddling of us precious climbers via aerial rescue training seminars and regulations requiring a qualified second climber on the job. Whereas the poor stalwart humble groundie gets the shaft, or err mandrel, all alone, in increments if the auto feed is engaged.

No SGB. Not me in the Dr. S vid.

jomoco
 
It comes with experience , some experience has to be much worse then others for some people to get the picture . Guys running Chippers need to know the boundaries , you get lazy or complacent then your chipper meat . You will never be able to build a truly safe chipper when you have a human feeding it , no matter how many eyes are watching .
 
How can we have a safer more efficient industry when Joe blow can buy a WTC, drive over to the nearest WalMart parking lot, hire some poor schmuck, spend 10-15 minutes teaching them the dos and don'ts of feeding a WTC, and legally avoid any responsibility for that operator's death when he gets spit into the back of a chiptruck?

All the big outfits I've subbed for have an in company two man minimum rule for WTC operation that they voluntarily established as a strict company policy.

Yet TCIA, Peter Gerstenberger specicifically, gets away with insisting that it's ok to have a solo operator hand feed a BC1800? This despite the fact that BC1800's have eaten about a dozen experienced chipper operators? And he's this industry's safety leader? What a joke!

We're supposed to ignore the fact that Vermeer, Morbark, Bandit etc, are some of TCIA's biggest sources of income? Meanwhile the slaughter continues, aided and abetted by TCIA saying it's cool to ignore the state and Feds number one recommendation to help prevent these on the job fatalities!

jomoco
 
I think that there is alot of other more important issues that should be fixxed first in the tree industry. Not saying this isnt important but there is alot more dangerous things that should come first. Common sense goes a long way in the tree industry.

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How many climbers have been killed tying onto cranes during crane assisted removals? 50? A dozen? Six? Any?

Yet TCIA has bent over backwards establishing rules and regulations for climbers tying onto cranes in this biz.

What gives with this active discrimination against WTC operators in this industry?

jomoco
 
I don't discriminate ..... I just feel like although in happyville no one would ever get hurt . But like a said a Chippers sole purpose is to destroy trees. The human body is shaped like a tree and much easier to process . Chippers need to be fast and effective bottom line it's not the manufacturer that wants that it's the buyer ! Start with changing the thoughts of the owner . No one likes laws that replace common sense . Just saying
 
What's my agenda?

A safer more efficient tree industry for all treeworkers.

Speaking out for those unrepresented in this biz.

Raising the standards of professionalism in this industry.

It can and does happen.

There are literally tens of thousands of living trees that don't bear the scars of climbing lines since I introduced cambium savers onto the market back in 92.

jomoco
 
I have super cheap really safe solution ! For real it would be awesome . Just gotta have someone to support my thought . Basically my system would be a eye scanner that is common In stores to prevent theft installed on the infeed chute of the machine , the operator would simply use tape either on there sleeves or pant legs that when passes the scanner instantly stops the infeed wheels by using a simple selenoid that could be retrofitted for any age machine with hydraulic infeed , for drum chuck and ducks a shut off selenoid that instantly kills the motor hopefully that would slow the machine enough to prevent death. The system I believe could be sold for less then 1000.00 dollars
 
Wanna go a step further make a glove with the the the reflective material built in or pants that have it around the cuffs , I mean you could even go as far as putting on a hard hat full proof and cheap
 
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