A shaping pines?

[treeman82]

Anybody on the boards A shape pines? Whether they be mature or young.

 

[Stumper]

Sure-to a limited extent. Typically ,most pines are symetrical and need little shaping to please the eye. Clean and prune for clearance usually sums up the work. Occasionally, though things get pretty lopsided. A little tipping back to good laterals can work wonders without undually stressing the tree. Then there are ones that are out growing their space but the owner doesn't want to remove the tree. Some 'shaping" has to be done just to make clearance possible. Also there are a few Mugos out there that I've done some pretty advanced manipulations on-The key is not doing too much in one operation.

 

[treeman82]

Mark has been advocating in class about A shaping pine trees so that they do not lose their lower foliage to shading. He suggested on an 80 - 90 foot tall white pine; removing the top 20 - 30 feet and then taking in ALL branches by 25% of their folliage. Just wonder if anybody practices anything like this?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've seen crown reductions on pine. I've done a few "artistic" prunings of pines.

Vistiting Fred this summer, he does some work that looks like Japanese "cloud pruning" lot of but pruning and such.

 

[nik1978]

The pines here in East Texas are so plentiful that most people see them as a complete nuisance, however after living in the DFW area I have grown to appreciate pines. Unfortunatly not around here about the only calls recieved concerning pines are take downs.

You know the worth of water when the well goes dry.

Safe Climbin,
NIK

 

[kf_tree]

i've topped many a white pine (at customers request) and they always looked like crap. plus they drip sap all over the place. sorry but i feel the only pruning pines need are a little pick and peck with a pole clip. once you pop the top and start taking the sides in on a white pine their just an eye sore. plus half the time when you butt tie the top over you end up snapping half the branch's as the top runs down.

pardon my ignorance,,,,,,,,, but isn't he advocating topping? why? so what if they loose their lower foliage. does that mean we should run out west and start topping the red woods? (that could be fun)

 

[Stumper]

82, I didn't catch on to the A shaping part of your first post. The dramatic overall reduction does not sound like a very good thing to 'advocate' to me. I've removed a beetle killed top or 2 and had the remainder of the tree survive but doing that on healthy trees for a supposed benefit doesn't mesh with my overall view of tree care. Has the man got any good science to support this practice?

 

[treeman82]

Stumper, the man in question was president of the NAA for several years, and heads up a large and well respected tree care firm out in Boston. This is something that I just cannot, for the life of me understand.

His reasons for taking out the tops is to create a more dense folliage at the bottom to provide shading and privacy.

The reason for taking back the tips is to again, provide shading and privacy. However also to protect the trees from snow and ice damage. Most of the pines he has talked about doing this on have been small (40 feet in height at the most) and they were planted to serve as a privacy hedge.

 

[Treeman14]

Its been my experience that shaping, topping, shearing, crown reduction; whatever you want to call it, does NOT produce a denser canopy. In fact, since most of the subsequent growth will be at the tips, there will be LESS growth in the center and lower portions of the canopy.

 

[Toddppm]

Alot of xmas tree farms around here "A" Shape their White Pines

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Todd, if someone transplants one of these sheared pines, the sheared part is stunted and the new growth on top is not. In about 6 years you will have a big tree growing out of a little tree below! Sure looks dumb.

 

[Thillmaine1]

a-shape

I also am familiar with A-shaping. I worked for that reputable firm out of Boston for a few years. Mark is long gone, and Hartney-Greymont is know owned by Davey. (sad) I have practiced it on large and small trees, the small ones show promising results. The large trees seem to be much more difficult to prune properly, unless you have a bucket and can make multiple set ups so you can get all sides as well as get some cuts back into the interior of the canopy so it doesnt look so "sheared." I am doing some spruces with the same concept currently, its working out quite well. IMO,hemlocks see the best results because they have so many latent/dormant buds that are activated with reuction cuts on branches.

 

[beastmaster]

I don't see how taking out the top and end cutting the branches is good for a pine, or any other tree. I have artistically pruned many pines of all shapes, sizes, and species. All I ever do is enhance what form the pine already has If its not a perfect A shape, so much the better. I have a time or two removed a top or a few scaffolding branches to get a bonsai effect on smaller pines planted in a landscape situation, but the key to making a pine happy and well maintained is not taking out to much overall green and keeping plenty of interior growth.
In most situations the tree is a better judge of what it needs then we are. If taking out the tops was best for them, they would of genetically developed that way. I wonder what those poor trees did before we were there to improve them?

 

[Thillmaine1]

Beast. Your in Cali, you guy have eastern white pines? I dont think so. Second by removing the top you obviously stimulate a hormonal reaction to push a flush of growth. So if you prune the ends of the tree you reduce weight, help shed snow ( due to the traingular haircut your giving it), and redirect some of that growth back into the interior fo the tree. THis concept doesnt work on other types of pines that dont have an aggressive growth pattern. Also, you get almost no results if you do this in the summer. It has to be done during the cold weather. I am nfan of topping trees but picture yourself in this situation: Large eastern white pine 90 plus feet on the property near a garage has been shedding branches for years, looks ugly and has all sorts of old wounds and long branches that extend well beyond the medium of the canopy. Homeowner wants to cut it down. Short of killing it, you have no other options to reduce hazardous nature of these trees. So you A-shape, they love the look, it fills in after the first few years, all the branches are shortened so it helps reduce breakge blah blah blah. Im all about natural, but you have to satisfy the customer or you might as well not even be in business. IF the tree is going to be a better judge then we are, then why does the world have arborists? Thats why we are here to make a compromise between nature and the homeowner.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Sounds like an excuse to top and hack rather than than proper thinning.
Jeff

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I have done some pine shaping, but with an objective of opening up views or bringing out an interesting shape while getting the tree to fit the space available.

Couple pics of Japanese white pine (don't remember the variety off hand):

View attachment 278036View attachment 278037

The objective was to flatten them and keep them below a particular height, while retaining the zig-zag structure and natural look; believe it or not, I spent about an hr on the two small trees (8 - 10 ft. tall), removing about 1 foot in height, 2 ft. of depth and a small amount of width.

 

[Thillmaine1]

This isnt my concept. A former national arborist association president formed it. Her also happens to be the former CEO of one of the nations top tree care firms.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I have done crown reductions in Douglas-fir, ponderosa pine, Oregon white oak, and scotch pine. However, ALL of these trees were in a neighborhood with a view ordinance, which stated that trees less than 30 ft.l tall when the home was built have to be keep t below that height. So the alternative, once someone wanted their view back, was to remove the tree, perform a crown reduction, or open some windows in the crown.

I would walk away from a crown reduction in which I had to take out leaders over 6 in. diameter, since these trees were most likely grandfathered in and would just amount to old school topping. I did all my trees by climbing, in combination with some work from the ground (no lift truck). Done right, this work takes a lot longer than a simple clean and thin type job.

The trees will also need a touch up every 3 - 5 years for ever after.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I have done crown reductions in Douglas-fir, ponderosa pine, Oregon white oak, and scotch pine. However, ALL of these trees were in a neighborhood with a view ordinance, which stated that trees less than 30 ft.l tall when the home was built have to be keep t below that height. So the alternative, once someone wanted their view back, was to remove the tree, perform a crown reduction, or open some windows in the crown.

I would walk away from a crown reduction in which I had to take out leaders over 6 in. diameter, since these trees were most likely grandfathered in and would just amount to old school topping. I did all my trees by climbing, in combination with some work from the ground (no lift truck). Done right, this work takes a lot longer than a simple clean and thin type job.

The trees will also need a touch up every 3 - 5 years for ever after.

Good post,,
Jeff

 

[jefflovstrom]

Beast. Your in Cali, you guy have eastern white pines? I dont think so. Second by removing the top you obviously stimulate a hormonal reaction to push a flush of growth. So if you prune the ends of the tree you reduce weight, help shed snow ( due to the traingular haircut your giving it), and redirect some of that growth back into the interior fo the tree. THis concept doesnt work on other types of pines that dont have an aggressive growth pattern. Also, you get almost no results if you do this in the summer. It has to be done during the cold weather. I am nfan of topping trees but picture yourself in this situation: Large eastern white pine 90 plus feet on the property near a garage has been shedding branches for years, looks ugly and has all sorts of old wounds and long branches that extend well beyond the medium of the canopy. Homeowner wants to cut it down. Short of killing it, you have no other options to reduce hazardous nature of these trees. So you A-shape, they love the look, it fills in after the first few years, all the branches are shortened so it helps reduce breakge blah blah blah. Im all about natural, but you have to satisfy the customer or you might as well not even be in business. IF the tree is going to be a better judge then we are, then why does the world have arborists? Thats why we are here to make a compromise between nature and the homeowner.

Like I said,,you sound like you are trying to justify topping and heading.
Not trying to be a bully, but this statement, ' Short of killing it,' make's me wonder. Are you a CA?
Jeff
Never mind,,
Jeff :msp_confused: