Advice on starter band mill.

[Sawyer Rob]

Again, I've never used one, but I have been looking and thinking about it. Thanks for the reply, as I really wanted to hear criticisms of the swing-blades, and why NOT to buy one. Naturally, their sales dept will only tell you how great they are. That being said, let me present a couple of counter-arguments to your comments

Once set up, with the frame leveled to the log, or the log leveled to the frame, the swing-blades cannot produce the real wide slabs like the band saws. but a 14" saw has no trouble making 12" planks, as they can cut from either side. Obviously, there would be some limitations to what percentage of the log can be turned into wide boards. I'd guess that most of the lumber they would produce would be limited to the width of one cut, rather than double width. You could definitely trim a log down to the "double cut" width on a log, and then produce that width for the bulk of the log you are sawing,

Given that they can cut equally wide or tall, I'm pretty sure that a greater percentage of the wood will be quarter-sawn, if that is the operators goal.

View attachment 1113639

1. Some swing blade saws have a 45° setting on both sides, so quarter sawn is definitely possible. Band saws can only produce "plain sawn". I don't understand how you can be critical of the type of cuts that the swing blades produce, since they have more versatility than a band mill that only cuts slabs on one plane. Granted, most of the better band mills comes with hydraulics to roll the logs, but I don't see that as a big advantage, given that they only produce slabs. After you make the slabs, then all that wood must be re-sawn into the desired width. That's a whole separate process to add before you get lumber.

2. Now if you are sawing for big slabs, as many guys do, a band-saw would be the only way to go. They would also be better at making really big beams, although the swing blade can cut a lot of lumber away from the log to leave nothing but a big beam. If you just want finished dimensional lumber, I don't know why the swing blades wouldn't be quicker and easier.

3. I used to deliver logs down to the Timber King sawmill factory for their sales and promotion. They would give me some of the lumber for my efforts. Unfortunately, I kept bringing them logs that were too big for their saws, and then they would ask me to rip the log in half so they could handle it. They even asked me for a bigger log one time, as they were developing a larger capacity sawmill. I never got any wood off that log, because (they said) that my log broke their prototype. Swing-blade mills don't have that problem.

First of all, what you are calling rift in your pict. is not accurate, it's really full quartersawn, there's more rift in what you are calling quartersawn.

1. This is just NOT true You turn the log to get what ever cut that you want. The second highlight just isn't true either, only a few if any boards need edged.

2. I can get multiple beams with a BSM, not just one big beam.

3. It's true that super big logs are easier with a swinger, but what percentage of your logs are super big? 99'9% of my logs aren't, and that's the way it is for the average sawyer.

How do you saw the tension out of a log with a swinger? How do you grade saw with a swinger? That's two important things that will be done daily, so tell me how you will do that with a swinger.

You really need to learn a lot more about how to mill a log with a BSM and then you will see the advantages of one.

SR

 

[pdqdl]

I do believe my previously posted picture is 100% accurate.
Read up, and tell me again how it is mistaken?

https://www.osbornewood.com/the-difference-between-plain-quarter-and-rift-sawn-lumber

 

[pdqdl]

How do you saw the tension out of a log with a swinger?

I guess that sometimes nothing would work.


As previously stated, my experience at sawing logs is rather limited, but I've never seen anything like the picture above. Having done a bit of research on your comments, I can appreciate the need to roll the log over a bit more.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I've never seen a log do what that pict. shows, but there's tension in nearly every log, including the one I milled today, and turning the log gives you best lumber. Looks like he made cut, then backed up, turned the log and started again.

Some logs just are a problem, and you have to deal with it, I've seen guys with swingers fight tension, and if they could turn their logs, it would have sawn out of the log and gave them much better lumber.

I milled out 2x6's today, I got a nice little pile.

SR

 

[Franny K]

View attachment 1113639

Where did you find these three pictures" The one that says rift sawn is what is considered quarter sawn lumber but a bizarre way to get the growth rings oriented that way. Take your quarter and saw a board off one of the fresh cut quarters, then take a board off the other fresh cut of the quarter. Repeat, repeat after a while you get rift sawn as the growth rings are not colose enough to be "quarter sawn" Timberking has a different way to get mostly quarter sawn in their manual, but I don't have it in text. With a band mill if you put the quarter on the bed and against the stops/squaring arms and take your board off the bottom then turn the log end for end and again put the log bark away from the bed and stops and take a board off the bottom again. I suppose correct where I put stops think where the stops/squaring arms would be but the little nub is all you can have sticking up because you are cutting off the bottom. There is an animated youtube video that would come up real often in the suggestions a couple of years ago when I was watching that sort of stuff.

Say you want perfect flat sawn 6" boards so you cut with your band mill 3" above the center, flip 180 and again cut 3" above the center or 6" from the bed. You will have the bark top and bottom pieces that have quite a bow, ends up from the essentially cant. That is the kind of thing stress manifests itself. Maybe there is some desirable species that does not do this.

Here is a video that is not the one I had in mind, less animation and more talk.


Maybe this one,

 

[thenne1713]

Just like a hand or electric WINCH on a simple CSM, I can in my old age, advise that HYDRAULICS will determine how much pain and energy and maybe injuries you have at the end of each day, and strongly suspect that after use, you will appreciate every $$ extra you spent on it.

 

[thenne1713]

Also, I was unaware of the "tension" aspect of sawing the logs. I always presumed that was taken care of by stacking the lumber to force it square as it dried.

Sometimes, worse tensions come from large limb logs vs trunks.

 

[Franny K]

To the OP the Paul Bunyan show in Ohio, perhaps around an hour from the Ohio river Oct 6 or close to that. Cooks and Timberking don't seem to go but the other Major brands do. One swingblade not sure how many manufacturers exist for them. Last time I went there was a German machine run off a big generator with some features not on the others.

 

[thenne1713]

Sometimes, worse tensions come from large limb logs vs trunks.

Thinking further, I also greatly suspect that these tension in flat-sawn are much different from other cuts, and maybe a huge influence?

 

[Bubster]

Has the OP purchased a mill yet?

Has the OP purchased a mill yet?

Not yet, but Lord willing it is coming this spring. Everything that can keep a man (and wife) busy has done so this summer. I am still doing a lot of research and weighing out the pros and cons of each model.

 

[DaveS74]

After about 30 years of building fence and doing various jobs, the wife and I have decided it is almost time to give it up and do something we both enjoy. I am not looking to make a living out of milling for people, but I could see the opportunity to make a decent income doing it if needed. I have looked at everything from a Woodland Mills to a Wood-Mizer LT 35. I believe the LT 35 would be overkill for what I am looking to do,but having too much is better than not enough. The Woodland Mills just seems slow and not quite enough. I am looking for something portable, so trailer mounted would be a must. I am not brand loyal at all here, as I have never owned a portable band mill.( I have used a couple before though and helped do some offbearing). Any good thoughts on something in the middle?

Have you looked into a portable swing-blade sawmill instead? Better portability, less by-product, safer and easier to use than a bandmill (in my humble opinion). I find the cuts more accurate and I've never had an issue cutting logs of unusual shapes and sizes. There are quite a few different brands out there, but I use this one https://turbosawmill.com/

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I have NOT found the swingers to be "more accurate" than BSM's, at least not with the logs we have here in the US.

I've seen swingers turn out some crap lumber and I've seen BSM's turn out some crap lumber, it's really ALL about blade maintenance and operator error. And then there's all the disadvantages of a swinger that's already been discussed.

It's mostly about the size logs you have, to mill.

SR

 

[thenne1713]

Not yet, but Lord willing it is coming this spring. Everything that can keep a man (and wife) busy has done so this summer. I am still doing a lot of research and weighing out the pros and cons of each model.

Well, let me simplify for you, regardless of brand, either 1) manual or 2) hydraulic/ electric; = put your time/ research/ study into blades/ brands and blade options vs what types of wood you will be cutting. A WINCH LOADER maybe not hydraulic lift, MAYBE LOG BED vs RAMPS, but then will there be a tractor loader? if ya go with HF mill= all manual= get BEST blades you can find.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Again, I've never used one, but I have been looking and thinking about it. Thanks for the reply, as I really wanted to hear criticisms of the swing-blades, and why NOT to buy one. Naturally, their sales dept will only tell you how great they are. That being said, let me present a couple of counter-arguments to your comments

Once set up, with the frame leveled to the log, or the log leveled to the frame, the swing-blades cannot produce the real wide slabs like the band saws. but a 14" saw has no trouble making 12" planks, as they can cut from either side. Obviously, there would be some limitations to what percentage of the log can be turned into wide boards. I'd guess that most of the lumber they would produce would be limited to the width of one cut, rather than double width. You could definitely trim a log down to the "double cut" width on a log, and then produce that width for the bulk of the log you are sawing,

Given that they can cut equally wide or tall, I'm pretty sure that a greater percentage of the wood will be quarter-sawn, if that is the operators goal.

View attachment 1113639

Some swing blade saws have a 45° setting on both sides, so quarter sawn is definitely possible. Band saws can only produce "plain sawn". I don't understand how you can be critical of the type of cuts that the swing blades produce, since they have more versatility than a band mill that only cuts slabs on one plane. Granted, most of the better band mills comes with hydraulics to roll the logs, but I don't see that as a big advantage, given that they only produce slabs. After you make the slabs, then all that wood must be re-sawn into the desired width. That's a whole separate process to add before you get lumber.

Now if you are sawing for big slabs, as many guys do, a band-saw would be the only way to go. They would also be better at making really big beams, although the swing blade can cut a lot of lumber away from the log to leave nothing but a big beam. If you just want finished dimensional lumber, I don't know why the swing blades wouldn't be quicker and easier.

I used to deliver logs down to the Timber King sawmill factory for their sales and promotion. They would give me some of the lumber for my efforts. Unfortunately, I kept bringing them logs that were too big for their saws, and then they would ask me to rip the log in half so they could handle it. They even asked me for a bigger log one time, as they were developing a larger capacity sawmill. I never got any wood off that log, because (they said) that my log broke their prototype. Swing-blade mills don't have that problem.

You NEED to watch this Vid,



They are quarter sawing the CORRECT way!

SR

 

[pdqdl]

So yes. A swing blade can quarter saw, and pretty easily, too. Just keep cutting somewhat perpendicular to the radius of the log.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

So yes. A swing blade can quarter saw, and pretty easily, too. Just keep cutting somewhat perpendicular to the radius of the log.

I've seen and even run a swinger myself, and if you think that will even work, you will have to show me that magic trick!

SR

 

[pdqdl]

Triple cut and alternate quarter sawing ought to be quite easy on a swing blade mill.

"Common" quarter sawing looks easy too, although not on the same log as the first two techniques. You would need to rotate the log's starting position by 45° from my diagram, or have a saw that would cut on a 45° bevel.

I looked around, but never found one with that feature. I'm sure someone thought of it, however, because it would simplify quarter sawing.

That radial quarter sawing looks very impractical & wasteful. Also damned near impossible with a swing-blade mill.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

View attachment 1138709 View attachment 1138711

Triple cut and alternate quarter sawing ought to be quite easy on a swing blade mill.

"Common" quarter sawing looks easy too, although not on the same log as the first two techniques. You would need to rotate the log's starting position by 45° from my diagram, or have a saw that would cut on a 45° bevel.

I looked around, but never found one with that feature. I'm sure someone thought of it, however, because it would simplify quarter sawing.

That radial quarter sawing looks very impractical & wastefull. Also damned near impossible with a swing-blade mill.

There's only ONE quarter sawn, NOT the several in your diagrams, what some of what they are calling QS ISN'T!

There lies YOUR confusion.

SR

 

[pdqdl]

You seem to be focused on the method employed to cut the lumber.

If the angle of the grain within the board on the final product is the same, how does it matter what technique the lumber was cut with?

By the way: that diagram is only to show the different approaches to get lumber out of the log. It was not intended to be a schematic for any one log dissection.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

There's only one way to cut out QS lumber and a swinger isn't the tool to do it, as you need to quarter the log and you can't do that with a swinger.

The vid I posted SHOULD have answered all of your questions and taught you how to get "true" QS lumber.

Sorry man, if you don't get it by now, you never will so I'm done with this one. lol

SR