annoyed with public land cutters (a venting exercise)

[E&R_firewood]

i live in an area where the majority of the timber is encompassed by public lands (BLM, Nat. Forest) an individual can buy permits to harvest dead, diseased, down and invasive live trees (spec. Quaking Aspen) in years past a lot of folks got away from burning wood, pellet stoves and propane became king, the past couple of years everyone and their dog it seems have turned to wood heating, therefore the amount of cutters in the forest is obscene and their cutting habits are terrible. i won't even get into the 5 foot tall stumps with angled back cuts. a lot of them leave their trash strewn about the cutting site, beer cans snack wrappers, etc. they take only the clear wood and leave half a tree laying there rather than bump off some limbs, they drag the trees out onto and across access roads with winches and ATV's leaving limbs, debri and ruts everywhere. they leave slash strewn everywhere. they forge new roads, rather than manning up and walking a little bit. they get trees hung up with bad felling practices and leave them hanging, often right near the access roads and jeep trails. they cut in restricted areas (campgrounds) etc, etc. maybe i am a prude but the pamphlet stapled to every booklet of permits clearly forbids these things. It has gotten so bad the Ranger District is now debating on even allowing personal firewood harvesting in these areas. i rely on the public lands for the bulk of my yearly firewood and i try to be steward like when i cut, i follow the rules, i carry a shovel and fire extinguisher, i pile my small amounts of slash neatly as outlined . . .isn't it great how a few morons can ruin it for everyone.

 

[ts39136]

WOW... You got it bad.

In Eastern Idaho, I've have good experiences. So far, I haven't come across any trash. I did see one bank cut up from skidding. I have seen some cutting from near "camp" spots, but they were not legitimate campgrounds anyway and the trees were waaay past dead and probably a danger. One camp spot had a lot of slash not-so-neatly stacked up, but it will surely disappear as firewood for the campers.

I did stop to trim down some slash from a top of a tree near a "major" road that just looked ugly. I, too, am worried about the future of cutting.

I do drive to the tree sometimes, but we are allowed to drive up to 400 feet from the road to get wood. Usually I can roll the logs downhill to the road.

Maybe the difference is that I see a forest service worker EVERY TIME, I've been out collecting my 7 cords this year. I've got my permit checked twice. Each time they commented that most people don't even fill the permits out. Overall my experience with the forest service and other cutters has been positive.

If you see someone disgracing the forest, take down some notes or a picture and contact the NFS office. I'm sure they will follow up.

One thing I noticed about the beetles, I try to cut all effected trees within an area to clear the bug, but it still seems that next year there will be 7 or 8 trees right around the ones I had cut down. My "cutting spot" for the last few years is turning into a clearcut, but we have to slow down those beetles somehow. Maybe some cutter education is in order.

Happy cutting.

EDIT --> I also carry a shovel, fire extinguisher, 5 gallons of water, and a collapsable bucket, but the forest rangers have not asked to see them.

 

[mtngun]

Trees in S.E. Idaho ? Who knew ? :biggrinbounce2:

I'm lucky to live in an area where the firewood cutting pressure is light. Loggers do far more environmental damage here than firewood cutters. Ditto the cattle owned by welfare ranchers. Hunters, too, buzzing through the woods on ATVs instead of hunting on foot.

During the spring mud season, teenagers and 20 something macho men like to go 4wheeling on logging roads. Firewood cutters often get blamed.

Teenagers like to have keggers on public land. Besides the obvious litter, the keggers attract a lot of drunk drivers to the back roads.

When they don't have a keg party to attend, teenagers will simply cruise the backroads while chugging a case a beer, leaving a trail of empties in their wake. They like the backroads because there are no cops.

I have seen firewood cutters helping themselves to a pile of logs that were obviously part of a timber sale. Not surprisingly, the foresters have been very reluctant to issue firewood permits when there is an active timber sale in the area.

I have to negotiate with the forester exactly where I'll be cutting. Sometimes I even email him photos of specific trees and ask for permission to harvest them, just to make sure they are "legal".

I do bend the rules a little bit, but I pay the permit fees, only take dead trees that would otherwise rot, and try to leave the site at least as clean as I found it.

 

[Straightgrain]

Too much trash in Oregon too. Despite all the volunteers on the beaches, the hills are neglected.

My complaint is to the city slickers that come up for the day, leave their shell casings, targets of all kinds and McDonald Bags.

I love to shoot and enjoy all the priviledges of public land but find myself picking up trash. Hey, in ten thousand years, it will be all cleaned up eh?

 

[rob206]

Not my experience at all. Most people in my area take all of the tree except for the very smallest limbs. There are exceptions ofcourse, but generally most is taken with almost no trash left behind. I haven't encountered new trails leading to downed trees, foot paths yes.

I have noticed in one area, people took some oak logs that were stacked and left from a logging operation. Those logs had been sitting for a couple years, I know it wasn't right, but if the company really wanted them they probably should have gotten them out of there sooner. It was only that one site that I noticed that.

 

[MotorSeven]

E&R, very few folks actually care about their environment. The poor cutting practices just mirror the overall "It's all about me" mentality. The trash? It's 2009, these dirt bags actually throw their trash out of their window. They go camping on our beautifull lakes here and leave all their garbage, old tents, chairs grills etc. I just spent 3 hrs in a local cave on private property....yep, beer cans and bottles strewn throughout. Who does this stuff??, Not one single friend or neighbors that I know would never chunk a bottle out the window. Hell, I still remember the look on my mothers face when in the mid sixty's my dad threw a soda can out of our boat. She gave him the riot act and after that day, dad never ever threw anything anywhere but in a proper trash can.
River clean up's, lakes, highways, etc. We are constantly seeing this done, and yet more and more "locusts" just deplete and trash everything around them. Sad isin't it?

RD

 

[E&R_firewood]

One thing I noticed about the beetles, I try to cut all effected trees within an area to clear the bug, but it still seems that next year there will be 7 or 8 trees right around the ones I had cut down. My "cutting spot" for the last few years is turning into a clearcut, but we have to slow down those beetles somehow. Maybe some cutter education is in order.

the beetles are terrible here as well, where i saw one red needled tree last year there are 5 or 6 this year. i also look at using these trees for firewood as a win-win situation i have firewood and a beetle infested tree is removed and hopefully slows those satanic insects down. i also believe the Forest service should offer some kind of brief training on proper cutting and explain what is acceptable what is not acceptable in a blunt manner. in all my years of cutting on the Nat. Forest i have never once run into a ranger or had my permits checked, the Ranger District here has a huge area to cover and is understaffed. i guess i feel a person should have an innate respect for the land that gives them so many things, i am by no stretch a tree-hugger, i believe the public lands should be utilized but not abused.

 

[ts39136]

Arrrrgggggh!! Did you send the Wyomin's out here?

Out grouse hunting the other day, saw about 10 dead pines taken down, big wood gone, trunks to no less than three feet, directly off the main road and the only shade for a campsite. The branches that now fill the campspot we're still very green when I passed by. There is no green cutting around there. What were they thinking? Oh how I wish I came across that with a shotgun in my hand, or a camera!
:chainsawguy::deadhorse:oke::camera::looser:

 

[jburlingham]

i live in an area where the majority of the timber is encompassed by public lands (BLM, Nat. Forest) an individual can buy permits to harvest dead, diseased, down and invasive live trees (spec. Quaking Aspen) in years past a lot of folks got away from burning wood, pellet stoves and propane became king, the past couple of years everyone and their dog it seems have turned to wood heating, therefore the amount of cutters in the forest is obscene and their cutting habits are terrible. i won't even get into the 5 foot tall stumps with angled back cuts. a lot of them leave their trash strewn about the cutting site, beer cans snack wrappers, etc. they take only the clear wood and leave half a tree laying there rather than bump off some limbs, they drag the trees out onto and across access roads with winches and ATV's leaving limbs, debri and ruts everywhere. they leave slash strewn everywhere. they forge new roads, rather than manning up and walking a little bit. they get trees hung up with bad felling practices and leave them hanging, often right near the access roads and jeep trails. they cut in restricted areas (campgrounds) etc, etc. maybe i am a prude but the pamphlet stapled to every booklet of permits clearly forbids these things. It has gotten so bad the Ranger District is now debating on even allowing personal firewood harvesting in these areas. i rely on the public lands for the bulk of my yearly firewood and i try to be steward like when i cut, i follow the rules, i carry a shovel and fire extinguisher, i pile my small amounts of slash neatly as outlined . . .isn't it great how a few morons can ruin it for everyone.

Permit cutters can come in many forms,There are some that are responsible, safe, and respectful of the woods. I have also seen similar in out state forests. There are a variety of plots given out that been left with big stumps, or my favorite the "Punji sticks", not to mention as you have the hung up trees and trash. Luckily in our area the DEP has foresters that sort of monitor the cutting or at least look to see about hazards left behind.

 

[myzamboni]

They should require a written exam before permits are issued (just like at the DMV). The test should be tailored toward steward-of-the-land behavior. Those who fail don't get permits.

Am I the only one that sees how simple this would be?

 

[Dalmatian90]

>just like at the DMV

And passing a test has made our highways so safe and courteous...

Tests don't change human behavior. Some are #######s.

 

[myzamboni]

>just like at the DMV

And passing a test has made our highways so safe and courteous...

Tests don't change human behavior. Some are #######s.

Don't get me started, the DMV tests need to be more strict. The process is appropriate.

 

[Chris Crouse]

They should require a written exam before permits are issued (just like at the DMV). The test should be tailored toward steward-of-the-land behavior. Those who fail don't get permits.

Am I the only one that sees how simple this would be?

It is a good idea in theory but the majority of people know what is right and wrong and good and bad. They choose to do wrong and bad much of the time. A person could pass said test with flying colors, then go and do whatever the heck he wants once he has the license. We need to let people start discipling others without fear of lawsuits and imprisonment. Would you steal my wallet if you knew I'd shoot you? Would you key my car if you knew I'd hunt you down and take revenge? Not many would.

 

[woodbooga]

Don't get me started, the DMV tests need to be more strict. The process is appropriate.

Maybe hunter safety would be a more apt comparison.

However, I'd imagine administering the exam would require some expense. From what I understand, the PL permits are cheap and probably would not offset the additional expense.

 

[char]

The last thing we need is a firewood cutters test. Ridiculous.

What we need is enforcement to go out and write these people tickets for littering and violating their permit requirements. A few well placed citations would probably fix the problem pretty quick.

As for ruts and limbs, etc. It's firewood cutting and usually the damage is far less than your average timber sale. I yard logs into roads all the time. I don't see what the big deal is.

I also see the lazy folks as a boon to me. Didn't bump the knots on that log right by the road? Saved me some work getting it to the road.

Cutting green trees is timber trespass/theft. Pretty good fine for that one.

Bummer a few are ruining it for the majority.

 

[Chris Crouse]

What we need is enforcement to go out and write these people tickets for littering and violating their permit requirements. A few well placed citations would probably fix the problem pretty quick.

No. WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER EXCUSE FOR MORE TICKETS, LAWSUITS, ETC. We need to start getting things in line by doling out immediate harsh punishment for stupid and thoughtless actions.

Why do people think more laws will fix things? It is just more of an excuse for someone who is deemed an enforcer by spineless society to boss people around.

 

[ts39136]

What we need is enforcement to go out and write these people tickets for littering and violating their permit requirements. A few well placed citations would probably fix the problem pretty quick.

Agreed. In the other area I talked about in this post, I saw a ranger very often.

 

[myzamboni]

when my sis lived in Seattle there was a law that if 3 citizens reported the same carpool violator, the violater received a ticket in the mail. wouldn't it be nice to be able to report to a ranger (and save the expense of having a ranger patrol) and have that be the fine/ticket equivalent of a citizens arrest?

 

[StihlyinEly]

Up here you can get a cheap permit (about $20) to cut dead and down hardwood off U.S. Forest Service roads. You can also get permits (again about $20) to go in and cut surplus/slash off logging sales on state and county land.

I've gotten both.

Sure, it's tempting to cruise into a logging sale in the pickup and tip a few 8-foot logs into the bed, but I've found a LOT of excellent birch and maple laying in slash piles at these sales, and have taken as much as 6 full cords (in block or round form) of maple/birch on a $20 permit.

Plus, since I'm out on the forest roads all the time in my pickup for photography purposes, it's a good deal to get the cutting permit. It way more than pays for itself, especially since I'm out there anyway doing photography. Some years I've gotten my 8-10 cords of hardwood for heating without more than free cutting and a couple $20 permits.

Never once have I seen another person cutting in the same area. To contrast that, when I lived up in the mountains of Colorado, my chainsaw's whine always had company. Well, that's not surprising, since all the wood up there was low BTU and there were a lot of people competing for it. Here, there's lots of birch and maple and few interested in getting permits.

 

[myzamboni]

StihlinEly, your up in beautiful country. My grandparents had a summer place on Vermillion. Man, the stories my dad had (including a canoe trips through the boundary waters)

Do you have a link to your photography?