another one bite's the dust !!!

[ROLLACOSTA]

just had to sack my groundsman today ,due to him not turning up for work either on time or at all..this employee was the 14th in 10 years ,what on earth is wrong with people in this day and age.seems to me very few give a dam about anything..I think the problem lies with the 'politicly correct' bunch ie dont tell little johnny what to do he comes from a broken home,or for stealing his neighbour's car little johnny should be sent on an adventure holiday of a life time,or for beating his girlfriend up black and blue little johnny need's to see a counciler and don't blame him he has ADHD or XYZ or DDN syndrome or some other load a bullchit made up disorder

anyone got any tips on how to keep staff ??? i have tried money ,and being nice ,and having flexi-hour's....!!!!!!

 

[alanarbor]

create a future.....I don't know how big your outfit is , but if you're a small tree company, being a groundman is the biggest nowhere job there is, regardless of pay, niceness, etc. Find a way to get people to belive that they have a future beyond breaking their back every day, and you may have better luck. Still it's not easy, and to top that working with your hands and body just isn't respected by anyone anymore. It's the sad truth that honest work for honest pay is looked down upon.

 

[Jumper]

And there are a lot less physically intense ways of earning what is little more than welfare wages at least here in Canada. People start to "give a ????" about their jobs when they are paid well, but at the wages offered by most for groundsmen, it is no wonder most have an easy come easy go 'tude.

 

[rb_in_va]

anyone got any tips on how to keep staff ??? i have tried money ,and being nice ,and having flexi-hour's....!!!!!!

Have you thought about some sort of profit-sharing program? That might help employees to feel they have some ownership in the company. Just a thought, later, Roger.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Since it is treated as an entry level position, you must "winnow the chaff" so to speak and live with the turnover until you find a person who is the right fit. That may mean running 2 or three part timers so you have a little depth in the pool.

Pay them a little for a the first few weeks then work them up to a good wage as they perform....

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

thing is i pay very good wage's after they have settled in ...and i alway's create a 'future career' picture the trouble is we never get too far into the future

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Maybe you're starting at too good of a wage?

Maybe you need to hire few "guest workers" instead.

It's a running gag over here that you cannot get a white kid to do the work any more without kvetching.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

i think they should all get a daily thrashing with a 'robinia sucker'

 

[alanarbor]

Labor used to be a respected job......Now blue collar might as well be brown since most of the world thinks of you as sh*t. It's not enough to be willing to work hard to suppourt you and yours, now you have to do it without getting your hands dirty, to be thought of as a decent member of society.

Our culture just doesn't suppourt a work ethic any more.

I'll stop now...... I could rant about this subject all day

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

Quite a few around these part's have thrown in the towel and gone into other work landscapeing that kind of thing..as much as i love arboriculture i have to put my family first ,i have sadly just started to advertise for 'landscaping' [patio's paving fences etc] work, seems to me that it's easier to get the work and employee's

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Having more services to offer the client will ultimately narrow your service area down, and make you more efficient. There's more money in hardscapeing too.

Many good companies in my area do landscape work too, it's not like it's a betrail of some ethical code.

I have met some guys who work 10 clients doing full service maintinance on upscale properties who feel they are doing too much.

When it comes down to it, most small buisness where the owner does most of the work is not going to make that man rich.

Labor and even skilled trades have allways been looked down on by those with "Educated Professions".

Us? Many look at what we do as a step above trash pickers, niether nor educated.

 

[Stumper]

Rolly, I understand other peoples reponses to you post but you nailed the root cause in your initial post of the thead.-You are seeing first hand the natural consequence of political liberalism. When society fails to hold people responsible FOR their actions many will stop BEING responsible IN their actions.

 

[tnttreeman]

One year I went through about a dozen groundsmen, bad since I only usually have a 2-3 man crew. I'm 33 and I outwork every single one of them. I don't expect them to outwork me, but at least give me an honest day's work. The worst ones are usually the younger guys, in the 18-29 year old range. No work ethic. My best guys have been my age or older.
I've tried lots of methods to keep them, but without success. Lost my best one to a union construction labor job- $19/hr + full benefits, plus not having to work nearly as hard since it's a "union" job. Can't compete with that.

 

[Proj Eng]

I've got a good edumacation, but I respect those that can and do what I cannot. I'm no tree monkey, but I marvel at the speed and strength required for such work. I also respect the guy that can and does bust his butt for hours on end every day no matter what weather, (like ya'll). Heck, this past weekend I helped (more like volunteered) bartend for 9-1/2 hours, only to come away with $16 in tips, that's it. But it was a fun experience. And it was after piling a few sticks, about 3 cords worth for firewood.

However, after doing woods work when I was 13/14 yrs old for some years to earn a few bucks for stuff and school, I have an appreciation for hardworkers. I guess that may make the difference between understanding and respecting professions and just reading about them on forums.

Advice on keeping the lower paid guys?... create a great work environment with good people. Maybe a holiday bonus every now and then for longevity. I feel there are three cores for every job: $$, people and environment. You can't get all 3 (or maybe VERY rarely), but to have 2 out of 3 is what i consider a great job. 3 out of 3 is a career.

 

[jmchristopher]

13 guys in 10 years...you have been blessed! There is no magic bullet for finding and keeping staff. You simply have no choice but to keep that issue at high on your list of priority issues. I think you feel the stress more because yours is such a tight operation. You end up relating almost like family. Stick with it, keep a good attitude, and keep in mind that if it weren't for the employees and the clients, this job would be simple.

 

[treechick]

There are some good posts / ideas here ...
Can I offer input as a groundie ? When I was trained, expectations were voiced to me continuously throughout the day in a firm, respectful way. When I did a good job, I was told so in a firm, respectful way... and in doses that I knew were real and not "stroking" me.
Act like you have full confidence in your new groundie's ability to learn... and use the, "I know you're smarter than that" approach when spankin' them. Stress to them the fact that when they work safely & efficiently, it isn't so you can shove more money in your pocket (the biggest MYTH), but rather, you want them to be worth a ???? at the end of the day and have a quality of life in their off-hours. You know that groundwork is entry level and that arboriculture has endless career possibilities, but do they ??? Talk to them, let them know that anything they learn now will apply to the industry. A lack of interest in the entire industry will let you know that it just isn't their groove and you're wasting both folks' time.
Blah-ditty-blah-blah-blah, I know , but I was trained so well that I've considered going into this area of the industry, which brings me to this : Diversifying (landscape, sales, whatever) is fine if you enjoy what you're doing, no ?

 

[iain]

rolla why didn`t he come in, was it a hangover ? answer : go on the piss with the lads, that way you all feel like sh!t together, and none of you will wann`t to turn up getit out of there system then you can get on with some graft

 

[SteveBullman]

i dont see how rolla stooping to his groundsmans standards is going to help things

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

i have got nothing against the work hard play hard scene ,but when the play hard out weigh's the work hard i do have a problem a big one....man cannot live on bread alone !!!!! or beer for that matter !!!!.....work usualy bring's home the bacon !!!,i need lot's of bacon !!!

 

[Acer]

I think it's the nature of the people who end up doing this sort of work. It always will be high turnover as far as labour goes. - but when they start choosing when (or if!) they come in, rather than turning up as agreed, you're best without them. I've had a few like that myself, and have had to reschedule a lot of work in the past because of their unreliability. In the eyes of the client, it looks like I'm the unreliable one, so it directly affects my livelihood. I'd rather have a reliable numpty than someone who thinks they're going to turn up when they feel like it and only do what suits them, no matter how good they think they are!

As soon as my work eases off, I'll be putting a bit more work into drawing up formal contracts of employment, with written grievance procedures, discipline standards and expectations of performance etc. At least if these differences arise, you've got something in writing to back you up. If you sack someone without having gone through a proper procedure (in the UK at least),, however justified you are, you'd probably lose out if an awkward buggr decided to take you to tribunal.