I was wondering if there was anyone in or near the hampton roads area that is an experienced climber and familiar with the double rope technique that wouldnt mind spending a day teaching a rookie the basics. I am getting ready to buy a double rope kit and begin my climbing experience and would really like to have someone in person to learn from. any help out there?
Any double ropers near the Virginia peninsula/ Hampton Roads
- Thread starter cntrybo2
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you are looking to get this; what are you willing to give?
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hi :newbie: . Welcome to arboristsite.
First, know what you're asking. Double rope technique (double roping or DRT) is the use of two individual ropes, simultaneously, in the tree , like what you might use in a big lateral moves and a few other occasions.
Doubled rope technique has two versions, one where you ascend and descend a doubled line (line goes up and comes back down) where both ends stay on the ground (DbRT)and the technique is nearly identical in all respects to single rope technique, both being a 1:1 system. This is best done with backed-up dual ascenders for ascent and simple hardware for working the crown/descent. It is a metal-on-rope system of friction control where 100% of the friction is dealt with right in front of you, where the rope passes through the piece.
The more common doubled rope technique (DdRT) involves the use of a friction hitch, cambium saver, micropulley, and connecting hardware. It's a 2:1 system where friction comes from the tie-in point, the friction hitch itself and anywhere else the rope touches a limb above you. One end of the rope goes up while the other comes down. Every foot of rope that passes through the hitch allows you a half a foot of advance. It is a rope-on-rope system of friction control where friction is distributed between the tree (and/or the friction saver) and the friction hitch.
Chances are you're asking about the latter of the two, but you tell us.
First, know what you're asking. Double rope technique (double roping or DRT) is the use of two individual ropes, simultaneously, in the tree , like what you might use in a big lateral moves and a few other occasions.
Doubled rope technique has two versions, one where you ascend and descend a doubled line (line goes up and comes back down) where both ends stay on the ground (DbRT)and the technique is nearly identical in all respects to single rope technique, both being a 1:1 system. This is best done with backed-up dual ascenders for ascent and simple hardware for working the crown/descent. It is a metal-on-rope system of friction control where 100% of the friction is dealt with right in front of you, where the rope passes through the piece.
The more common doubled rope technique (DdRT) involves the use of a friction hitch, cambium saver, micropulley, and connecting hardware. It's a 2:1 system where friction comes from the tie-in point, the friction hitch itself and anywhere else the rope touches a limb above you. One end of the rope goes up while the other comes down. Every foot of rope that passes through the hitch allows you a half a foot of advance. It is a rope-on-rope system of friction control where friction is distributed between the tree (and/or the friction saver) and the friction hitch.
Chances are you're asking about the latter of the two, but you tell us.
beowulf343
Addicted to ArboristSite
Excellent explanation TM.
What exactly does a "double rope kit" consist of?
What exactly does a "double rope kit" consist of?
Welcome to the site! I live in Hampton. Where on the peninsula are you? BTW, not a climber.
I live in the Williamsburg area....As for what a double rope kit this is what i am looking at with an upgraded saddle
http://www.newtribe.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=226
To answer what style of doubled rope i am looking to do, it sounds like the latter of the two explained, seeing the use of ropes and no pulleys.
To address what i am willing to give for the help, i just got married and have a little extra money, i am completely willing to aid in a tree job guarranteeing i will be taught something and not just toting limbs (i dont mind working) and i am willing to give someone a good feeling knowing they have taught someone the right way (that would mean something to me)
http://www.newtribe.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=226
To answer what style of doubled rope i am looking to do, it sounds like the latter of the two explained, seeing the use of ropes and no pulleys.
To address what i am willing to give for the help, i just got married and have a little extra money, i am completely willing to aid in a tree job guarranteeing i will be taught something and not just toting limbs (i dont mind working) and i am willing to give someone a good feeling knowing they have taught someone the right way (that would mean something to me)
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Here's Cntrybo2's rec kit.
It's clearly a recreational climb kit, and thin at that. There's some obvious parts missing, some parts that should be upgraded for better-performing parts and some parts that just won't get used at all. I love new tribe, but even as a recreational kit, this collection has some big holes in it. If you buy this, plan to spend another couple hundred to bring it up to the point where you could safely work-position and have proper PPE to do tree work.
I'm not so good at being a critic, if I get going it would look like I'm trashing this whole kit , so how bout some of our other members take a swat at this?:
It's clearly a recreational climb kit, and thin at that. There's some obvious parts missing, some parts that should be upgraded for better-performing parts and some parts that just won't get used at all. I love new tribe, but even as a recreational kit, this collection has some big holes in it. If you buy this, plan to spend another couple hundred to bring it up to the point where you could safely work-position and have proper PPE to do tree work.
I'm not so good at being a critic, if I get going it would look like I'm trashing this whole kit , so how bout some of our other members take a swat at this?:
I am a couple of hours away, but if you are ever near the Fredericksbug area, I would be happy to help you out. I don't have any really nice climbing trees on my property, but have enough to teach the basics.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hey Kevknep,
Welcome to the site!
Welcome to the site!
Thanks. I have been following the site for quite a while and finally got around to posting.
RedlineIt
ArboristSite Guru
cntrybo2 says he'll be going for an upgraded saddle, which I assume will bump the cost up right off the mark. Hopefully it will at least have side "D-rings" so he can use a lanyard.
Which he will apparently have to purchase separately as no lanyard is shown. Truly a rec kit of minimalist proportions, emphasis on "mini".
Those Petzl ball-lockers are rubbish, some batch lots even recalled by Petzl, see sticky thread in Climbing Forum.
Nothing provided for slack tending, ie: not a single micro pulley. You could learn to get around in a tree without one, but why torture yourself?
Rope sleeves as a cambium saver are good to have, as friction savers, not so much.
On the up side, that's a nice helmet.
It shows a prussic cord that looks like I could fashion a useful VT, Schwabish or Knute out of it for a split-tail climb, but without a lanyard, how practicle is that?
There are enough throw bags that a rookie could get one hopelessly stuck and not have to pack up and go home. Been there.
TONS of throw line.
Rope bags are a very good thing.
The sticker is way cool.
cntrybo2, you are far better off IMHO by first buying a copy of The Tree Climbers Companion, a well illustrated book about the basics of this trade, written by Jeff Jepson. One of the first things he covers is your basic kit.
It is available through Sherrill, a site sponsor here. Read it and then browse the Sherrill site for what you really need and do a price comparo to what you'll be getting from the New Tribe rec kit, plus what you'll need on top of that kit.
Not knocking New Tribe, not at all, just saying the rec kit is not enough to go to work with.
RedlineIt
Thanks guys, this is the honesty that i am looking for and love in the Arborculture/ Forestry community. As is was noted in a post, i am infact going to upgrade to a D-Ring Saddle. I already own a copy of the tree climbers companion and have read through it and am doing knot work from that book (starting with the basics) I will look at the "basic Needs" section and compare this to the New Tribe kit and work throught it. again thanks for you guys help i REALLY appreciate it and please keep it coming. If any of you know of a kit that is better and offered by another vendor please let me know, i am not married to New Tribe at all. Also, if any of you are feeling generous, take a second and give me a basic needs list in your opinions, that would help greatly
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hmmm. You'll get suggestions from all over the board as there are systems ranging from simple and effective to advanced and complicated with differing views of which is which. Certain gear won't even be mentioned, like climbing boots, which I think are about the most important purchase you can make.
As far as the saddle, man, we can go over all the options, but a climber who has not experienced the use of one of those options may have negative things to say about it, so be careful. Someone who has never warmed up to ascenders may say they're useless and that a simple prussik reigns king. There's old school methods that have worked for a hundred years and are still in use today, mainly because that's what's been passed on down by convention. Then there are new school methods that make things so much easier, but are poo-poo'd because we as humans tend to learn something a certain way, get comfortable with it and resist change (if it ain't broke, don't fix it).
Also what works for one guy may not work as well for another, Example, every time I climb in a saddle with leg straps I can't imagine how anyone could spend more than 45 minutes in it. Give me a bosun seat and I'm a happy camper. Some guys don't mind having their nads crushed and find some climbing advantage in a saddle with leg straps. Some guys like a fixed center point at the front of their saddle, some like the sliding D system. Rope fliplines with prussic adjusters vs wirecores and a microcender. 13 mm 3-strand vs 11 mm 24. An endless array of ways to approach friction control.
The point is, not many of us agree wholeheartedly on any one point. You're asking for specifics, but you'll be getting a grab bag of advice, from which you'll have to pick your parts and pieces. We don't have standardized systems. Every system is custom and every climber's technique is different.
There. Does that confuse you enough?
As far as the saddle, man, we can go over all the options, but a climber who has not experienced the use of one of those options may have negative things to say about it, so be careful. Someone who has never warmed up to ascenders may say they're useless and that a simple prussik reigns king. There's old school methods that have worked for a hundred years and are still in use today, mainly because that's what's been passed on down by convention. Then there are new school methods that make things so much easier, but are poo-poo'd because we as humans tend to learn something a certain way, get comfortable with it and resist change (if it ain't broke, don't fix it).
Also what works for one guy may not work as well for another, Example, every time I climb in a saddle with leg straps I can't imagine how anyone could spend more than 45 minutes in it. Give me a bosun seat and I'm a happy camper. Some guys don't mind having their nads crushed and find some climbing advantage in a saddle with leg straps. Some guys like a fixed center point at the front of their saddle, some like the sliding D system. Rope fliplines with prussic adjusters vs wirecores and a microcender. 13 mm 3-strand vs 11 mm 24. An endless array of ways to approach friction control.
The point is, not many of us agree wholeheartedly on any one point. You're asking for specifics, but you'll be getting a grab bag of advice, from which you'll have to pick your parts and pieces. We don't have standardized systems. Every system is custom and every climber's technique is different.
There. Does that confuse you enough?
I'll take the biners off your hands if you don't want them. They are fine for my purposes.
JEff B
ArboristSite Member
Wesspur
if you check wesspurs site you can make a custom climbing kit and get everything you need to start off...it will cost you though and they don't offer a new tribe saddle. However you can get most of that stuff from new tribe if you just put together your own kit.... prices should be fairly comparable anywhere you go
if you check wesspurs site you can make a custom climbing kit and get everything you need to start off...it will cost you though and they don't offer a new tribe saddle. However you can get most of that stuff from new tribe if you just put together your own kit.... prices should be fairly comparable anywhere you go
moss
ArboristSite Guru
The New Tribe kit is a good starter. The basic saddle is good enough to learn how to climb and inexpensive enough so you can keep it as a guest saddle when you upgrade to a work saddle. It's also a good light saddle for hiking into the woods when you want to keep gear weight down. The ball-locking biners that NT sells are not defective. Petzl did the recall on a limited defective batch, that's history unless you're buying biners on eBay. The sleeves that NT sells are excellent friction savers as well as cambium savers and very easy to install and take out of the tree. The NT work saddles are VERY comfortable, especially if you have long hang time (as beginners often do trying to figure out what to do next). I love my Butterfly BII harness but if I'm going to spend 3 or more hours straight in the tree it's going to be an NT work saddle.
There are a few Virginia climbers here
Bob Wray in Virginia is an excellent climbing instructor with reasonable rates. The good thing about climbing with Bob is that he'll provide the gear so you'll have a better idea of what's what when you buy your own stuff.
-moss
There are a few Virginia climbers here
Bob Wray in Virginia is an excellent climbing instructor with reasonable rates. The good thing about climbing with Bob is that he'll provide the gear so you'll have a better idea of what's what when you buy your own stuff.
-moss
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