Art Martin: Will the Real Logger Please Stand Up

[Art Martin]

After reading the post on fullskip vs. frozen wood thread dated 1-08-03, I am bowing out of this thread because apparently I lack “authoritative clarity” about chains. I think that the author of that post should continue in my place as he apparently has an abundance of “authoritative clarity” on every subject. I don’t want my lowly, baseless opinions to interfere with his ”authoritative clarity”. I will let that author submit his mathematical measurements of the critical angles required for completing a finished racing chain. He can also throw in some honing advice and probably share his vast knowledge of files too.

Art Martin

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

Art,

Don't bow out just because of one person,there are alot of people here who like to hear what you have to say about all aspects of chains etc..I would like to see this thread till the end but not with you bowing out..

Later Rob..

 

[dbabcock]

DON'T LEAVE, ART!!!!

There are perhaps a handfull of people who post here that may be considered bonafide experts at their craft and you're right at the top of the list. Just the fact that you are willing to share your decades of acquired knowlege with the rest of us is amazing in its own right. Of all of the thousands of people who have benefited from your posts here, who gives a sh!t if one or two don't appreciate what you've contributed. If you leave, then the 99% of the people on this board who would otherwise continue to learn from your experiences will be the ones coming up short because of the 1% who don't get it. I also know how much you enjoy teaching your craft as well as interacting with others here.

I'm an engineer. I have no less than 8 years of formal college and post grad advanced mathematics under my belt and I can tell any of those who don't know it here, that trying to analyze this kind of stuff using first order approximations will only result in a headache. I'm not saying that a mathematical analysis of what's going on when the chain goes through the wood would never result in anything applicable, it's just that all this first order crap about 3/8" chain and the tangent of the angle that the cutting surface makes as the tooth rocks back will get you no closer to filing a better chain than if you went out and just threw a loop at a Silvey grinder. The physics of the situation are multiorder. What this means is that there are so many little things that are going on at the same time, that the errors accumulated by ignoring them in an analysis would make the original estimate virtually worthless.

Art Martin is not a mathematician. If he remembers any of the math he learned in school, I doubt that much of it would apply here. Most people on this board are not mathematicians either. Putting up all of this math analysis stuff on this thread is a waste of time and typing skills. Art will not argue with the math because he doesn't calculate how to file his chains, he just files them because he has developed the skills to do so over many years. There's got to be a reason why it takes years to get proficient at filing square chain. If there wasn't, then someone would have already figured out how to plug numbers into a computer and have a machine do it for us.

This thread is one of the most popular on AS and for good reason. It is one of the very few where you can actually learn something that applies to how well all CHAINsaws cut. At 13,000+ views, I'd say that people are interested, Art. A lot of people.

 

[ricksvar]

Most everyone is going to ask questions,it's a way those truely interested lean.

Art,Come on back,don't be a "powder puff".

I've allways wanted to hear more about that full house chain!

Rick

 

[don]

Please continue ART

Gonna sell your Race Saw sharpening equipment?
Gonna bow out of this discussion forum?
I don't know what to write to change your mind nor do I understand why you would bow out. (Especially because of someone eles viewpoint)

The difficulty with any discussion forum is the way it is accomplished. All in written form. The main determining factor of how someone says something in our society is the tone of the voice. There is really no way to have this on a forum unless we have little movies of each reply.

Even though I print the letters GREAT ! What does it mean? It is accented and really interpreted by the tone of the voice and situation. Not easily translated by you from my writing style.

Personally I think there is more going on. Personal health, someone elses health, have something else to do etc. You have a other things to do with your time. Like do the ART MARTIN's GUIDE TO CHAINSAW CHAIN available on video book and audio tapes!

The only emotional way I can write the impact you have had on my abilities and views on the working with wood is very positive.

For you to leave this site (based on your written comment) is like havng a family member write a note saying they are not going to see me anymore because there are too many crazy people on the road when they drive on over here. OR don't want to come over because the friend you had over the other day really annoys me.

What ever your decision, (maybe we can urge you to tell us more) thank you for sharing your experience. You made me a better person because of what you wrote on this site. Thank you.

 

[Ryan Willock]

Art, don't go!!! i for one thourghly enjoy reading your post!!! i have learned a lot!!! i am one of those people who enjoy learning from my elders instead of insulting them or ignoring them and taking them for granted. i would rather learn from someone else's mistakes than have to make my own and do it the hard way!!!

Thanks for sharing your wisdom and knowledge with us Art!!!!:angel:

 

[JimL]

Don't let some jackass pencil pusher think he is better than you, just ignore him.

We all know that you have forgotten more than everyone here knows...

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Art,

Someone told me (when I was young and thought I knew it all) to listen to the voice of experience. On the subject of chains and sharpening you are the voice. So lets all just sit back and listen!

 

[woodsjunkie]

I personal have sat back and read every post that Art has made in this thread and have enjoyed each and every one.
I have also printed them out and made a special folder for them.
I am actully learning to square file thanks to Art.
The chain's are actually cutting wood "simply amazing".
Art I sure hope you don't let these "ignorant" people get the best of you.
Please Art Keep sharing you wealth of Knowledge
Eric

 

[Crofter]

Art:

I have been applying some of your advice on square filing and have seen some real improvements. The chain vice you illustrated works so much better than trying to file on the saw. I converted a round filed Carlton chain. Since I didn't cut it back to the rear rivet but left full length, I didn't get the 32 degree side plate you reccommend and my side plate hook is nearer to vertical than the hook you suggested. In the next sharpenings I will move towards your figures. We tested it on a Stihl 066 on some 8 inch green frozen birch and found it averaged 10% faster than new Stihl round filed chisel chain. About ten cuts each alternating operators. What was really impressive was the difference in appearance of the chips. The chips from the chisel chain had markedly less curl and crushing of the severed fibers and the end of the cut was much smoother. Your explanation of how it is a more efficient cutter makes sense when you see the results (even with my crude chain butchery) I am waiting anxiously for your instructions on razor honing; you've got me hooked. Thanks

Frank

 

[timberwolf]

Thank you Art, I have enjoyed your posts both for thier insight into years of chain and saw sharpening, as well as the wealth of historical content. I hope you return and share more with us.

From what I understand this thread is and was intended as a platform for sharing your stories, photos, and wealth of knowledge. It was unfortunate to have folks steering it into a debate, as there are lots of more debate suited threads on the site.

I think it might be good if a discussion thread was started on chain sharpening, and maybe one on engine preformance as well. I wouldn't think that this would in anyway detract from the Art Marten thread, I would just hope that having some discussion oriented threads would give those who mainly want to but heads a place to do that. In turn it would allow a platform for persons like yourself to share thier experiences.

Thanks
Timberwolf

 

[Tony Snyder]

beginner was into putting metal filings into his dads saw, now he is suggesting Art send viruses.
Who knows the evil that lurks in the hearts of boys?

You know, I like the old Jerry Clower tapes; on one he speaks of the 98% of the the young people that are good, but what we hear most about are the 2% that are rotten. I'll leave you all to your own conclusions of that.

I don't believe the boy is worthy to offer advise to a hero like Art Martin.

 

[Tony Snyder]

Mr. Martin, Do you care to explain to us if water soaked frozen wood dulls chains faster that dry warm wood?

 

[daveb]

Originally posted by beginner
the chains that these jack@@ses are trying to sharpen.

did this kid just call us jackasses? I'm sick of this punk, he's on my ignore list.
Art, I enjoy your authorative posts on this subject, please continue.

 

[Jock]

As a 4th generation logger, I was surprised and pleased to see someone who actually know's what they are talking about, and I hope Mr Martin you will continue to keep us all glued to the screen, with your wealth of informative information.......Jock

 

[Tony Snyder]

beginner, if you don't start coming up with some common sense and manners pretty quick, some of us "jackasses" may just turn up on your doorstep and give you some hands-on help.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Jock, I am interested about logging techniques in the British Isles. What type of timber do you have there, and how is it harvested? Is it mostly plantation, and what does a saw cost there?
Most North Americans may think logging isnt a big thing there, but I know they produce alot of timber.
I hope to go to Scotland one day as my Mother's Father was from Scotland.
We also have the Mighty Scots Pine here, which has become naturalized, but it rarely grows to good form. The Red Pine does much better.
Did you hear about the two gay Scotsmen?
Patrick Fitzwilliam and William Fitzpatrick
John

 

[dbabcock]

I think you'll find that it's an Irish joke, John.

 

[eyolf]

Yes, I'm sure that will entice Mr Martin back!

 

[Jock]

Hi Gypo, We are the biggest producers of timber in the U.K. and all softwood plantations are harveted by machines, ie; Timberjacks etc, Loggers are thin on the ground here now, as most were abused financially over the years, so decided to get out, fortunately the ones who hung around can now reep the benifits by following harvesters and felling the single trees which are to big for them, I personally work for the Forestry Commission, and employ around 10 men so things are'nt so bad, all work is local sometimes 10 minutes away, and at the most 40 mins, monies ok, around £4.00 per ton, or metre, the trees average 3-4 tons, a good cutter will cut around 10-12 trees per day (cut, dressed, sned logged and turned) we need that as fuel costs around $9.00 CDN per gallon and saws like a 036- 44 come in at around £500 GBP, safety trousers approx £80.00, boots around £120.00, I know its more expensive than in Canada and the States, as i'm a frequent visitor there. I recently drove from the Soo down to Midland, and the forestry appeared similar to here, but didnt see any operations going on, (to which my wife was very pleased about), wher in Scotland do you originate from?, and if you are coming here I'll show you around some sites, and possibly a bar or two.......Jock