Axe Men

[Cedarkerf]

What about the helicopter not having a cut away feature for the cable hook-up?

FAA anyone?

**************

There aren't that many loggers now.

In the good old days Oregon and Washington each killed a logger a month.

And at least 2 or 3 volkswagon bugs and drivers taken out by log trucks.

 

[bigshea13]

too many idiots and not enough intelligent thinking taking place. no wonder that industry has so many incidents. the guy with the wire and the heli....idiot. the guy running the yarder who quit...idiot. the guy who owned th company and lost his hand and then was still insistant that they needed to hurry and get more wood out than the others because it was a pride thing......idiot. the guy running the loader in a hurry and almost killed the choker....idiot the guys running the log trucks at full tilt....idiot.
ive got many logger connections and its rare for them or their employees to have an incident because money and ignorance doesnt overshadow their good sense.

 

[bendtrees]

I enjoyed the show. I was disappointed by the "green gold" "millions" "thousands a day" hype. I had to laugh, c'mon a crew, equip, and trucks pulling down $3K a day! It reinforces some extinct timber baron stereotype while the math doesn't add up. I expected the danger hype, but in West Coast Logging I suppose the hype is semi-accurate.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bell didn't have a way to punch off the line and the writers simply "left that out." I wish I watched it more closely.

I think OSHA does officially oversee logging operations. I never saw them in the woods though. Are there really too many variables? I see way more in any technical removal, pruning, or crane jobs then I saw in Heli logging.

Yeah, there are a lot of idiots. I remember guys who didn't have enough character or backbone to quit a job right. But, West Coast logging is the most brutal work I've seen, that deserves respect. And you've got to love the Henry Stamper attitude / character. "you've gotta get back out there like a man, get back out there like a logger..." (I paraphrase) I would say its the hardest work I've seen, but I'm sure some of you would laugh me down after seeing that one guy waddle up into the yoader.

Oh, BTW just got my ISA Cert today! Gotta get a beer to celebrate and dig through the envelope again to find the secret decoder ring.

 

[ciscoguy01]

Show

So ya'll know, I'm recording the series and am going to burn it to DVD. I'll make an extra set and once the series is done I'll send it out to be passed around to anyone/everyone that has/hasn't seen it and wants to make a copy. I can't/don't really have the time or means to make copies, but I'll gladly send out say 2 copies and ya'll can just mail'em around. Soooooo... Keep this in the back of your mind if you haven't seen it or can't see it, you'll have a chance.

eh?

I'm also gonna try and get it copied onto VCR tape also...

 

[lxt]

lxt and capetrees my point exactly you don't have your glasses on,oh you don't have that knot right, those ppe pants aren't good enough.I really wonder how many of these guys on the site really work for a living doing what we do.do they follow a book and sit behind a computer and try to find every little thing thats wrong and criticize guys for what they do.try the real world for once step out of the desk and computer and really do the job .some of these posts responses are terrible a guy trying to get info or ask questions and get blasted for it.I think its pretty funny after awhile.lxt cape you know the real guys from the wanta be's and you guys are for real there are alot of great people on the site but sometimes it gets old.the show proves the real world and what we do.nothing is perfect do the job and go home safe.

Absolutely!! On here we always hear safety, PPE, wrong, wrong, Id done this or id done that!!! Ive worked for the big companies & let me tell ya, SAFETY isnt always a concern....for me YES!! for them NO.

We always hear spikeless trims, etc..etc... funny how even the industry authorities TCIA & ISA mess up when writing articles or taking pictures, if they quote wrong or misprint they write a retraction!! If they take a picture of someone doing something like spiking a live tree...they apologize!! they always have a way out & the bigot's on here who hold dear to every word they spew...just go along!! what mindless followers!

Ill say it again; "there is no greater authority in the air(or on the ground) when performing tree work on my site....than ME!!"

bigshea13....one of the biggest idiots is the guy writing the articles for the TCIA opposing things he has probably never done, at least these Ax-Men are out there doing it.......idiots????? Nah, just hard working guys trying to make a living happier than he!! their getting TV time!! atleast they didnt put the PPE on for TV they held true to how they really work(maybe not smart) but it is what it is!!


LXT...........

 

[slowp]

Absolutely right about blaming the fallers for everything...'twas ever thus.

And log truck drivers don't "gossip". Girls gossip. Log truck drivers trade information. Also supposition, rumor, innuendo, and just plain old bald face lies. But never gossip.

But, please, be quiet about the donuts...there's only so many to go around and since the FS people never show up until after eight o'clock in the morning(the middle of the day for us) there aren't any donuts left for them. And we feel soooooo bad about that. We tried leaving the empty box with a few crumbs in it on the ticket stump at the landing but a chaser poured water in the box and ate it for breakfast. He said the cardboard was a little chewy but it cured the loose bowels he'd been having.

I'm glad I don't work around you guys. I get offered donuts all the time! Since we don't have any bakeries around here, they are the hostess kind. For some reason donettos seem to be the rage. Having to constantly fight the circumferential challenge, I have to turn them down. But I got a ride back up the hill in a log truck. The driver also was the owner of the logging side. He'd had to take over the truck driving after their driver quit. Prior to that, he'd been climbing and rigging up trees, etc. He had the box of donettos up on the dash and was complaining about putting on weight since taking up driving.
That box of donuts is definitely the dashboard ornament of the truckers.
Guys "trade information" a lot more than any group of women I've been around. And, being late middle aged, and way past my prime, I am not noticed and hear stuff that I can't believe. I tell my friends because it is pretty entertaining listening in on the world of guys.

 

[Justice]

I would be interested with all the talk of "millions" and "green gold", how much the employees actually make. It didn't look like they were pulling in "thousands" or even "hundreds" per day.

 

[greenmm]

Most employees get an hourly rate, and 20 bucks is damn good! Faller are different! Varies from hourly rate to daywage, to piecework!

 

[HolmenTree]

I would be interested with all the talk of "millions" and "green gold", how much the employees actually make. It didn't look like they were pulling in "thousands" or even "hundreds" per day.

West coast timber fallers make pretty good coin especially if their unionized[IWA]. All I know is back in the late 1970s they were averaging $300-$500 for a 6 1/2 hour day.They worked on a piecework basis. Their only expenses were work clothes, boots and their saw.The company often supplied the fuel oil files hardhats and gloves.Plus all the benifits like dental,stat holiday pay,pension,paid holidays up to 8 weeks per year after 20 years service, etc.They even rode the company crummy[bus] to the job site.It may seem like a short day but with the conditions they have to work in day in, day out 5 days a week for years and stay healthy puts them on top of the woodcutting totem pole in my opinion.
Back in the 70s,80s &90s I had all the above except I felled in central Canada.our timber was smaller and the ground was flat,and we worked 8 hrs a day. We always got the IWA newsletters at our camps so we knew what was going on from the coast ..We were shut down in rain and -40 below weather ,on the west coast they were shut down for snow and wind.

 

[tree MDS]

Absolutely!! On here we always hear safety, PPE, wrong, wrong, Id done this or id done that!!! Ive worked for the big companies & let me tell ya, SAFETY isnt always a concern....for me YES!! for them NO.

We always hear spikeless trims, etc..etc... funny how even the industry authorities TCIA & ISA mess up when writing articles or taking pictures, if they quote wrong or misprint they write a retraction!! If they take a picture of someone doing something like spiking a live tree...they apologize!! they always have a way out & the bigot's on here who hold dear to every word they spew...just go along!! what mindless followers!

Ill say it again; "there is no greater authority in the air(or on the ground) when performing tree work on my site....than ME!!"

bigshea13....one of the biggest idiots is the guy writing the articles for the TCIA opposing things he has probably never done, at least these Ax-Men are out there doing it.......idiots????? Nah, just hard working guys trying to make a living happier than he!! their getting TV time!! atleast they didnt put the PPE on for TV they held true to how they really work(maybe not smart) but it is what it is!!


LXT...........

There is alot more to actually being safe than just looking the part- alot more than a piece of plastic strapped on your head and some chaps. I've addmitted other personal "flaws" on this site so why not another : when I go to drop a real big tree and its harry, I take off (assuming its not got deadwood thats likely to clober me) my hard hat- I Just like to see whats going on around me, and no ear muffs either I want all my senses about me and its kinda nice to hear your hinge start to break as well as see it, as sometimes you hear it first. Not necissarilly a practice I'd teach a beginer but it actually makes me feel safer. Maybe its years of not wearing that stuff that makes me feel this way.

 

[lxt]

tree MDS, no quarrel with that, to me safety in some ways is a personal thing. Its what personally provides you the individual with the ability to avoid or safegaurd yourself from injury or worse!!

I think we all do certain things that by the book would be considered unsafe, if its cold & rainy...there are times I take my glasses off!! Im the same with ear protection.....I like to hear people yelling if something is about to/or did go wrong!!

whatever action someone needs to use to make it home at the end of the day unharmed........thats about as safe as safe gets!!

Take care & Be Safe

LXT.................

 

[smokechase II]

"Guys "trade information" a lot more"

I believe that to be incorrect.

I visited Israel and there I saw, on a regular basis, tables of three, four and five nice Jewish Ladies. They would all be talking at once. Occasionally they would rotate out for air and to sip a drink.

Can Log Truckers do that?
Even if they had the technology?

*********************

Cisco:

The series will be made into a DVD/set where for the good of the economy we will all be able to help out.

What would be great here is if one of us would edit it down to just cutting.
To do this right would be a great deal of work. They use a lot of fast moving clips where you don’t quit get to see what happened. So slow mo would be desirable.

It looks as if, despite the artificial and real drama that is getting top billing; there is a good deal of what not to do and what to do.

 

[slowp]

I believe that to be incorrect.

I visited Israel and there I saw, on a regular basis, tables of three, four and five nice Jewish Ladies. They would all be talking at once. Occasionally they would rotate out for air and to sip a drink.

Can Log Truckers do that?
Even if they had the technology?

*********************



There's two rigging guys who have worked together for eons. They come as a pair, I believe, when hired. They'll be talking at the same time and understanding each other! Nobody else does, but they do. It is kind of eerie. Like they have mind melded or something. Truck drivers have contact with log scalers. The log scaler is the Grand Poohbah of Rumor Control. The scaling shack takes in all rumors from the 4 corners of the earth and then sorts and disseminates these rumors. The trucker then carries the new "information" out to the crews in the woods. It is a very efficient operation requiring a few donuts.

 

[czar800]

I like the Show.

For one its a lot better then most tv. Hears the but, it reminded me of ice road truckers in that it makes loggers not look very professional. As did Ice road truckers not make truck drivers look professional and i know that there are Manny professional drivers as there are many professional loggers. Seems that they air the compiling, cursing more unprofessional side of this occupation's.

 

[Gologit]

[QUOTE



The log scaler is the Grand Poohbah of Rumor Control. The scaling shack takes in all rumors from the 4 corners of the earth and then sorts and disseminates these rumors. The trucker then carries the new "information" out to the crews in the woods. It is a very efficient operation requiring a few donuts.

ROFL...Absolutely correct. When I want to know what's going to happen, check the validity of the lastest rumor, find out who's starting or stopping a job, check out the cause of the latest wreck, get a good scope on what log prices are going to do, or just get an accurate weather report, I don't go to any of the management types in my company. I check with the guy that runs the scale shack. He knows where to get a good buy on boots, diesel, rigging, and the odds on whether or not the new barmaid at the local watering hole is as talented as she looks.
He not only gets donuts, he gets full fledged meals. Probably hasn't bought his own lunch, or a beer at the tavern, in thirty years. But he's worth it.

 

[fireman]

guys people have to take responsibility for there own actions.In today society its everyone elses fault.no self respect or respect for others.alot times you see it on job sites people parking there cars next to equipment ask them to move or workers free lancing knowing they are not supposed to be doing what they are doing.If I screw up or one of my workers screw up I take responsibility for those actions.alot of people deny there actions step up to the plate and take responsibility.Now on the other hand if employer puts himself at risk that one thing but to put his employ es at risk should be hung to dry. be safe

 

[stihlaficionado]

For the enquiring minds of "middle-class america" the show lived up to its billing IMO. The wife and 16 yr old were amazed that there are folks that risk their lives getting the wood needed for their paper napkins

The 16 yr old thought the kid(18 yrs) on one of the crews was "a nut" for working such a hard job...:censored:

While it's true there wasn't much air time given to the falling part, and only a few (2-3 seconds) views of the big husky's/stihl's... The rigging needed to haul the wood was fascinating....It makes the old loggers seem even more super human.

The question is whether or not the show ACCURATELY depicts the life of a logger...something only another logger can truly answer.

mark

 

[RiverRat2]

ROFL...Absolutely correct. When I want to know what's going to happen, check the validity of the lastest rumor, find out who's starting or stopping a job, check out the cause of the latest wreck, get a good scope on what log prices are going to do, or just get an accurate weather report, I don't go to any of the management types in my company. I check with the guy that runs the scale shack. He knows where to get a good buy on boots, diesel, rigging, and the odds on whether or not the new barmaid at the local watering hole is as talented as she looks.
He not only gets donuts, he gets full fledged meals. Probably hasn't bought his own lunch, or a beer at the tavern, in thirty years. But he's worth it.

LOL!!!! Das a good one!!!! when is it on again??????

 

[Gologit]

For the enquiring minds of "middle-class america" the show lived up to its billing IMO. The wife and 16 yr old were amazed that there are folks that risk their lives getting the wood needed for their paper napkins

The 16 yr old thought the kid(18 yrs) on one of the crews was "a nut" for working such a hard job...:censored:

While it's true there wasn't much air time given to the falling part, and only a few (2-3 seconds) views of the big husky's/stihl's... The rigging needed to haul the wood was fascinating....It makes the old loggers seem even more super human.

The question is whether or not the show ACCURATELY depicts the life of a logger...something only another logger can truly answer.

mark

The way it showed the working conditions was accurate. Steep ground, lots of slash, the effort involved...all pretty close. I could nit-pick some minor details but they wouldn't mean much to the average guy...kinda like you watching a show about what you do for a living.
Pay particular attention to the the fallers when they show them, and the kids setting chokers. Look at the ground they have to get around on, the brush and rocks and such. That's the way it is. Add the terrain to the fact that you have to hustle to get it done and imagine what you'd feel like by the end of the day. Add a little, or a lot, of rain,wind, and mud in the mix.
I know that a lot of people on AS would like to see more saws but the way the show presented them was realistic. I'd like to see more saws too, since that's the end of the business I've spent the most time on. The chainsaw is just a small part of the overall business of getting logs down the
hill, though. They're great for cutting but not worth a damn for skidding, loading, or hauling.
Watch the guys on the blow-down sale. That's timber with no lay and every chance in world of coming down the hill at you...nasty stuff.
I think that, as the show progresses, we'll see more variety...I hope so anyway.
I'd like to see a helicopter side. Most people have never seen that since they usually work so far back in the brush. An S64 or one of Columbia's 107s
are pretty impressive and they can move a lot of wood.
Hope I answered your question. Bob

 

[Joggerjack]

I heard that out west they use blimps to haul wood out of particularly difficult areas. That's some shizzle.

As for the reason these guys out west have such long bars is that every so often they come upon a tree 9 feet in diameter and don't want to have to find a scrench, take off the bar, grab the long bar from the truck 1/2 mile away, oh shizz somebody dropped a log on it it's bent, go find another one, then go find the long chain.....oh here it is but the idiot who used it last got some dirt on it and forgot to sharpen it. I guess it's easier just to have the long bar on all the time. Back east we just don't have any 9 foot trees. About 5 foot is tops (Sycamore, cottonwood gets that big, yellow tulip wood that big too) but not 9 feet!