Ban on wood-fired boilers-Its started.

[Booshcat]

Aerial views of the Chicopee neighborhoods where OWB's were operating before ban.
Click on aerial view in upper right of web page.

Pendleton....

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&addtohistory=&address=%5b812%2d819%5d%20Pendleton%20Ave&city=Chicopee&state=MA&zipcode=01020&country=US&location=f6MypaOOA%2bc1qbQdONe%2bzt%2fyAnWlWq16GekL4CMK6N55sKm%2bVQh0mH7P7iKOjONgXy%2fSU8Yw8EQxDlGf66krJ1OVXm770vRksERIZvm5AJWXc%2beAlzsJhUEQnkX8s2rMJU5TOkkZZpP3an%2bxgt9Q8g%3d%3d&ambiguity=1
Loveland...
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?latlongtype=internal&addtohistory=&latitude=QpVpagCMp43FOpzA1MRwzw%3d%3d&longitude=FrSKv5HJ3C1Mgx7Bs5bVCQ%3d%3d&name=St%20Patrick%27s%20CCD&country=US&address=125%20Montgomery%20St&city=Chicopee&state=MA&zipcode=01020&phone=413%2d592%2d4344&spurl=0&&q=loveland%20street&qc=Schools%20%28K%2d12%29

It's pretty tight quarters..

I don't have a problem with these units, I agree that they should be more efficient, but that should be a market driven outcome, not a government mandate. If you live in an area that is a good fit, more power to you.

I live in Massachusetts...It's a great place, except for the commie, moonbat, liberal, red diaper doper babies regulating and taxing everything that does or does not move..

Tough place to be a ditto head, but I persevere

 

[Husky137]

It will be interesting to see how much actual legal authority these boards and other "elected" officials have in the face of a lawsuit.

Having an OWB implies being a good neighbor about and using it responsibly.

Wish I had my camera with me this morning as I headed through town with all the woodstoves belching heavy smoke.

 

[logbutcher]

Hey Spikey

Nobody asked you to be on this thread logbutcher

FONT="Comic Sans MS"][/FONT]Your long long long points are made. Some I agree with, some I don't. So ? Your mind is made up. Others have written their opinions. So what else ? If someone wants to say "end", so ? Don't like what you hear ? Getting any new input ? Move on. This is called FORUM".....Even you are "asked" to be here. And "nobody" asked anybody. Roll around and stamp if you want. Go back to work. It's a forum.

Feel you're the THREAD FUHRER here ? :angry2: [/FONT]

 

[MS-310]

FONT="Comic Sans MS"][/FONT]Your long long long points are made. Some I agree with, some I don't. So ? Your mind is made up. Others have written their opinions. So what else ? If someone wants to say "end", so ? Don't like what you hear ? Getting any new input ? Move on. This is called FORUM".....Even you are "asked" to be here. And "nobody" asked anybody. Roll around and stamp if you want. Go back to work. It's a forum.

Feel you're the THREAD FUHRER here ? :angry2: [/FONT]

I think thats funny.

 

[Rspike]

Still waiting for that knowledge and information for the facts of OWB of the "pros" end of it. Lots of "cons" of lab test ..........

If you would like to see the thread "END" why do you have to keep coming back days later from the last post and bring it up again ? We already see you dont have any useful information to add to the topic.
But i do see you on your back kicking and crying ........again.


:notrolls2: :notrolls2: :notrolls2: :notrolls2:

 

[MS-310]

Still waiting for that knowledge and information for the facts of OWB of the "pros" end of it. Lots of "cons" of lab test ..........

If you would like to see the thread "END" why do you have to keep coming back days later from the last post and bring it up again ? We already see you dont have any useful information to add to the topic.
But i do see you on your back kicking and crying ........again.


:notrolls2: :notrolls2: :notrolls2: :notrolls2:

Hay I placed 2 or 3 pages of EPA (I contacted the EPA and other OWB companys on this) REPORTS on this subject, I do think that that was freaking useful information, its not my falt you dont beleave them.

 

[logbutcher]

It's Over Spikey

Still waiting for that knowledge and information for the facts of OWB of the "pros" end of it. Lots of "cons" of lab test ..........

If you would like to see the thread "END" why do you have to keep coming back days later from the last post and bring it up again ? We already see you dont have any useful information to add to the topic.
But i do see you on your back kicking and crying ........again.

He's Baaaaaaack. Up from the dead.......:And my back hurts from going down. And, hey, it's "kicking and screaming", not "kicking and crying." deadhorse:

Don't confuse yourself with facts Spikey. Let the owners decide what they want. Labs can make up anything to prove that their product is clean, is good, works, blows your nose,.......Want "pros" ? Ask the owners. Want "cons" ? Try Sing Sing. :biggrinbounce2:
A neighbor's creosote bothers you, talk with them. Gee wiz, they may not know as much as us experts :monkey: about wood burning.

Gee, one of us loves Glock, the other goes with Sig, the third with S&W. One prefers 9mm, another .40.....Stihl/Husky. Damn, I'm going to sing, all together: " you say tomato, and I say Tomaaato............

 

[Rspike]

Hay I placed 2 or 3 pages of EPA (I contacted the EPA and other OWB companys on this) REPORTS on this subject, I do think that that was freaking useful information, its not my falt you dont beleave them.

The statment was not directed at you MS-310 , We can agree to not agree and theres nothing wrong with that .
I applaud you for your input into the thread MS-310 and every one else that did there home work on the subject .

If i had the power to change things would i BAN outdoor wood boilers ? NO
The power need to be put towards higher efficiency and in turn you get better emissions. There would be nothing wrong with going from 28%-50% efficiency to 65%-75% efficiency ......... the OWB companies could sell more boilers and the owners would burn less wood and get longer burn time and of course the emissions would be better too .

I hope the OWB ban is a wake up call to the designers of the OWB companies to make a better product for there costumers and also the environment .

 

[046]

just read most of this long thread... whew!

seems to me there's good OWB and bad OWB's. just like there's good & bad indoor wood stoves.

what I have not seen much of in this thread is fundamental problems facing OWB's. that is when heating a tank of water, you don't want temps too high. so heat source (fire) is shut down (regulated).

this results in a fire with reduced temperatures, resulting in an incomplete burn. the identical theory applies to inside wood burning stoves that controls burn by shutting down oxygen. a low temp fire that results in incomplete burn. some take care of this problem with a Cat, some take care of this issue with multi-cycle burn schemes.

My JUCA takes care of incomplete burn by allowing fire to achieve full temps and control burn by size of logs. combined with a huge burn chamber, which allows use of a HUGE fan driven heat exchanger.

seems the good OWB's need to be separated from the poluting OWB's. just like the good inside wood burners need to be separated from the bad one's....

 

[cord arrow]

some take care of this issue with multi-cycle burn schemes.

imagine that. conscience use of an appliance.

 

[AB Services]

Wow. LOOOOONG thread. How about this fellas? How about a few ideas for people like myself who are building a woodburner? I would gladly take any ideas that someone would have. I just got done laying down $660 bucks for steel to build one in my basement and would like to hear peoples ideas on how to make it efficient. The gas company in my area is blatantly ripping people off and this is my way of skirting $200 a month gas bills when my thermostat was set to 45 degrees and the furnace never really ran much at all. Maybe start another thread on woodburner designs? Little help here? http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/newhouse/newhouse-stove.html
My design is a blend of the water tank and a Riteway model 37. This will be my first winter using a woodburner in my house and I have had absolutely no experience with one at all until last year when I used the Riteway 37 to heat up my garage. Please allow me to pick your far more experienced with wood heat brains......... thanks.

 

[AB Services]

HEY! Wake up people! No one has any ideas? How the heck do you upload a picture on here? I'd like to share a pic of what I am doing and get some feedback......

 

[abohac]

We have some in our town and its like San Francisco SMOG in the Spring / Winter / Spring. History: http://www.woodheat.org/technology/NYreport.htm & http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outboiler.htm & http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outrickperth.htm & http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outbobpen.htm I have a neighbor that went from 3 cords a year with an indoor wood stove to 8 cords a year with his new wood boiler , he wanst happy.

Was he heating other things with his OWB? Like hot water, garage etc.? If you use your wood heater to heat hot water and you have a couple of kids, you are going to use alot more wood.

 

[jdherville]

Device may help solve pollution problems and produce a more efficient heat

Hi I just want to introduce to you an invention that may help the problems of wood fire pollution out there. Its not on the market yet but in its final stages of testing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EXqin6s-Oc

 

[jdherville]

But that's the whole point of the invention. Put a standard top of the line wood burner of any kind in winter conditions you're always going to get smoke cooling and dropping. I can't say exactly how it works just yet but I can say that it does increase the firebox heat significantly.

 

[wavefreak]

If I could harness the heat on this thread then I could go off the grid.

Well anyway. Why can't they come up with a standard measure for wood volume? Cord? Face cord? Fireplace cord (who said that one)? What's wrong with just plain old cubic feet? Yeah. I know. I'm just asking for trouble.

 

[CrappieKeith]

If I could harness the heat on this thread then I could go off the grid.

Well anyway. Why can't they come up with a standard measure for wood volume? Cord? Face cord? Fireplace cord (who said that one)? What's wrong with just plain old cubic feet? Yeah. I know. I'm just asking for trouble.

It's called marketing!

 

[ijon]

first id like to say if i did at this point have one and a neighbor complained id try to fix the problem. also woodstoves have been around for years and now everyone is having problems with the smoke? i think its more about smoke being blown up someones behind! there wasnt a problem until fuel oil sky rocketed and people started buying them. in the summer i fill my dads up once every 3-4 days. in the winter i fill it twice a day...he prefers once, but i dont agree and our electric up here is not reliable to say the least! i want them to be warm! if my neighbors who all have wood stoves indoor and out want to complain..they know where to come! no one does because wood is our sustanance so to speak, as well as theirs! it would cost me 700.00 to fill my oil barrel and it uses 3 for the winter thats 2100.00! wood is all i have! not all of us has a gazillion dollars to spend on electric, propane, or heating fuel! thats why we use the boilers! and i dont even have mine yet! but i have to cut the wood for it for my mom and dad! not that i mind they are my parents, i do mind all this epa bs! try having a sick baby with no fuel and only a woodstove when the ice is on the electric lines? what do you think keeps them warm? you all need to think about stuff like that! sorry stuff like this just p@@@@@ me off! i apologize if ive offended anyone! i hope i have, maybe theyll think twice, about whether my nieces should freeze to death or a little smoke might get up their nose! sorry this is just a sore subject with me!

You are right wood stoves are putting the hurt on the propane companies.

 

[ijon]

Outdoor Wood-Fired Boilers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Given the high costs of oil and natural gas, a growing number of people in Massachusetts and elsewhere across the country are looking at outdoor wood-fired boilers as potential money-saving solutions for heating their homes.

These units are typically located outside the buildings they heat in small, insulated sheds with short smokestacks (usually no more than six to ten feet tall). They burn wood to heat water that is piped underground to provide heat and hot water to occupied buildings.

Outdoor wood-fired boilers are substantially dirtier and less efficient than most other home heating technologies. An investigation by the New York State Attorney General's Environmental Protection Bureau found that even when used properly, one of these units emits as much fine particle pollution as:

2 heavy-duty diesel trucks
12 EPA-certified indoor wood stoves
45 passenger cars
1,000 homes with oil heat
1,800 homes with natural gas heat
NESCAUM, the Clean Air Association of the Northeast States, has also completed an Assessment of Outdoor Wood-Fired Boilers.

With their large, smoldering fires and short smokestacks, outdoor wood boilers create heavy smoke and release it close to the ground, where it lingers and exposes everyone in the area to nuisance conditions and health risks. Although these units are designed to burn dry, seasoned wood, some people use them to burn green wood, which generates much more smoke, and even household trash or construction debris, which not only can release a harmful array of chemicals but is also against state law.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has not established emission limits for outdoor wood-fired boilers. Even when these units are operated according to manufacturers' instructions, they often create nuisance conditions that are prohibited by state air quality regulations. Municipal fire departments and boards of health also have the authority to control outdoor wood-fired boilers, and some have enacted by-laws or ordinances that prohibit or limit the use of these units.

MassDEP and local health boards have taken enforcement actions against people who own and operate units that have caused excessive odor or smoke. Regardless of how much a unit might have cost to install, sometimes the only way to resolve the nuisance conditions an outdoor wood boiler creates is to stop using it permanently.

If you are thinking about buying an outdoor wood-fired boiler, first check to be sure it is legal to install and operate one in your community, and if so, whether there are any specific restrictions you need to know about. Second, consider the impacts an outdoor wood-fired boiler could have on your neighbors and their property. Finally, if you do purchase a unit, never use it to burn anything other than dry firewood, and to the extent you can, operate it only during the cold weather months.

I read that what looks like smoke is really steam from wet wood.