Best Bearing Installation Alignment Methods?

[PogoInTheWoods]

I must be a lucky dude then. We've done three in the last few weeks with no trouble at all.
Pulling the crank in is the "proper" way to do it. :msp_wink:

Care to share some of that luck?

Point is, not all methods apply to all situations. The advice I've followed as the cool way to do these cases has been less than effective, though has taught me quite a bit, nonetheless.

No way you can just shove a bearing on the clutch side of an 1125 crank blind and have the case line up right unless you are the luckiest guy on this planet. Without a stop index of some kind, and using the method of choice for getting the bearing on the crank hot or cold, it will bottom out too far in without a stop index of some kind. Period.

There is no physical mechanism in place to properly position it on the crank otherwise.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

A little sleep, a little hair of the dog, a new day...

I'll be back at it a little later this morning -- hopefully with an open mind and a bit less frustration.:msp_smile:

So now the question is, how do I get the brand new clutch side bearing back OFF the crank for re-installation without trashing it?

Looks to me like about the only way is with a two-jaw puller or some type of specialty tool. If I can remove it without ruining it I think I'm gonna try the "in the case halves first" approach, then add a little heat again and draw the halves onto the crank with slightly longer bolts to get it started and see how it goes.

But about removing that bearing from the crank...

???

TIA as usual.

(I'd sure like to get at least one of these put back together today!!!)

Poge

 

[Jacob J.]

Bearings already on the crank have nothing to do with the pump as a "stop". The bearing on that side will be located too far toward the counterweight if installed on the crank first without appropriate compensation equaling the position of the pump as a "stop" for the bearing -- unless you're one lucky-ass dude every time you do it otherwise, or have a magic bullet you haven't explained yet -- like a spacer on the crank equal to the pump dimension as an index point doing it that way.

I've never used the oil pump as a stop and that seems like a touchy way to do it to me.
The pump housing itself isn't very strong- it's thin cast aluminum. It doesn't take much to break them.

I eyeball the bearing and install it starting on the inside of the case half, gently pressing it outward until just the very edge
of the race is still protruding from the inside of the case. Stihl gives you a bit of room for clearing the crank because
the engineers plan for worst case scenario and want room for the crank to expand under extreme loading. I know
why some guys install the bearings on the crank first and if that works for them, fantastic. However, I've found I can
attain more precision by doing the bearings in the case halves first. I'm going on 1,500 full rebuilds and have to install
a bearing crooked or ruin a case (knock on wood.) I have fixed many others though who have installed the bearings wrong.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I've never used the oil pump as a stop and that seems like a touchy way to do it to me.
The pump housing itself isn't very strong- it's thin cast aluminum. It doesn't take much to break them.

I eyeball the bearing and install it starting on the inside of the case half, gently pressing it outward until just the very edge
of the race is still protruding from the inside of the case. Stihl gives you a bit of room for clearing the crank because
the engineers plan for worst case scenario and want room for the crank to expand under extreme loading. I know
why some guys install the bearings on the crank first and if that works for them, fantastic. However, I've found I can
attain more precision by doing the bearings in the case halves first. I'm going on 1,500 full rebuilds and have to install
a bearing crooked or ruin a case (knock on wood.) I have fixed many others though who have installed the bearings wrong.

The pumps on both of these saws were cracked when I removed them -- in nearly the same place on each one. I'm guessing it WASN'T because they were used as a simple index point for the bearing installation via the heated case/cold bearing approach, but rather because the bearing was installed too far through the bore and the pumps cracked when they were torqued down onto em after the fact.

I can now see how the pump would work as an index location/stop for the bearing if you're heating the case and dropping the bearing into place without any force needing to be applied. Start hammering on it or using a press to get it "true" otherwise and all bets are off and the pump will likely crack or break.

So about removing the brand new bearing from the crank without trashing it...

Anyone?

 

[Jacob J.]

If you don't have access to a bearing separator like the one pictured in the auction below,
you may be able to make one.

14pc GEAR and BEARING SEPARATOR KIT New Pulley Puller | eBay

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

If you don't have access to a bearing separator like the one pictured in the auction below,
you may be able to make one.

14pc GEAR and BEARING SEPARATOR KIT New Pulley Puller | eBay

So I'm guessing the two-jaw puller probably isn't a good idea.:redface:

With any luck at all the bearing will stay with the case when I split it again and I can go from there. Damn...

And I thought pulling a flywheel side crank seal on an 026 with a drywall screw and a pair o' pliers was fun!

Silly me.

 

[nmurph]

...I'm going on 1,500 full rebuilds ...

Well, that certainly puts my experience in perspective.

 

[Jacob J.]

Well, that certainly puts my experience in perspective.

lol...well the key to remember is that I started in '87. My first full on rebuilds were a side-by-side: Husky 2100 and Stihl 075.

It only took me ten days. :msp_wink:

 

[blsnelling]

Right or wrong, here's my method. I install the flywheel side bearing onto the crank. I then heat the case half and drop that bearing into the case. I bolt the oil pump onto the PTO side case, heat it, and drop that bearing in. I then pull the PTO case half onto the other half, pulling the PTO bearing onto the crank.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Right or wrong, here's my method. I install the flywheel side bearing onto the crank. I then heat the case half and drop that bearing into the case. I bolt the oil pump onto the PTO side case, heat it, and drop that bearing in. I then pull the PTO case half onto the other half, pulling the PTO bearing onto the crank.

That's how I ended up doing it (basically out of necessity) with where I was in the process and it worked just fine this last time around.

Some of Randy's luck must have rubbed off, too. The PTO bearing stayed in the case when I split it. Wish I would have taken a pic to show how much further into the case it was by putting it on the crank first. Not a lot, mind you, but still too much -- as in the width of the gasket. Put a little heat on that side (with the pump in place) and easily pressed it home flush with the bore and just up against the pump. Gonna snug the case up here in a minute. Wait. Gasket? S##T!!!











Naw, I remembered to put it in. :msp_biggrin:

Sure do appreciate everyone's help and input, not to mention everyone's patience with me on this one. I learned a bunch.

Hopefully others can benefit from the collective experience represented in the thread by some of the best cats out there.

Thanks, guys. I should have em both done by next winter if I can keep up this pace!



Poge

 

[Philbert]

This has been a great thread for those of us new to this procedure. Thank you all for your input.

Interesting to read about the different methods. Out of curiosity, does anyone know the 'official' methods that STIHL or Husqvarna teach factory authorized techs for doing this in dealer shops using the factory spec tools?

Re: using the oil pump to space the bearing on that side - could someone fabricate a simple spacer from an oversized washer (or something similar) to locate this bearing without stressing the cast aluminum oil pump?

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[nmurph]

lol...well the key to remember is that I started in '87. My first full on rebuilds were a side-by-side: Husky 2100 and Stihl 075.

It only took me ten days. :msp_wink:

Well, to address my deficit I went out today and split a 281 and 394...I don't even know if they needed it or not, but at least I'm closing the gap! I've got them cleaned and prepped, and am just waiting on seals, gaskets, and time.

 

[Mastermind]

I'm glad you got it worked out. I doubt I'll be chiming in on bearing replacement again. Sorry for the bad advice. We do a lot of this stuff and don't really think about the specifics.......:msp_confused:

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I'm glad you got it worked out. I doubt I'll be chiming in on bearing replacement again. Sorry for the bad advice. We do a lot of this stuff and don't really think about the specifics.......:msp_confused:

Nah, mang. It was all good advice -- and about as authoritative is it gets in one thread for any number of bearing replacement situations.

And without you sharing some o' that good luck, the PTO side bearing probably woulda stayed on the crank and I probably WOULD have trashed it removing it with a two-jaw puller just out of sheer frustration!

Thanks again for your input.

Poge

 

[Mastermind]

Nah, mang. It was all good advice -- and about as authoritative is it gets in one thread for any number of bearing replacement situations.

And without you sharing some o' that good luck, the PTO side bearing probably woulda stayed on the crank and I probably WOULD have trashed it removing it with a two-jaw puller just out of sheer frustration!

Thanks again for your input.

Poge

I do have a big brass hammer that I ain't afraid to use. If the counterweights were against the case I would have given it a good whack in the right direction.

That's not a recommended method BTW.

 

[Stihlofadeal64]

Well, that certainly puts my experience in perspective.

Yeah, I'm feeling like a munchkin now too. But I am learning!