Burn Pile

[TeeMan]

I really hate it when I see a commercial site being cleared out and there are nice straight oak trees that could easily be used, but then they all get pushed into a large burn pile. I have been passing a site for the last couple of weeks on the way to work and saw some trees pushed down and entire root ball out of the ground. These were lined up side by side, so I figured they would at least mill them...nope, into a large burn pile they go. And forget firewood junkies like us even having a chance to get any of that wood that would make great firewood...

 

[zogger]

Doesn't hurt to ask. maybe a few bucks towards purchasing some of it would help.

 

[TeeMan]

It is just finding the time. These guys move so fast with large equipment, which I don't have. Then without knowing the landowner and it being developed into commercial property, the liability of someone getting hurt on the land comes into play. Luckily, I was able to get a nice red oak dropped off that was being taken down in the neighborhood recently which is around a three cord tree easily. And this coming winter, my friend and I will be out on some land again with plenty to cut.

It is just frustrating to see such nice wood go up in smoke and not even used for firewood or hauled to mill. I assume time is money so their concept is cut, ground-break, build, & sell. The dozers knocked the trees over and now just burn pile them; it was not even done by an arborist.

 

[Torch68]

On the Merrit Parkway here in Connecticut they have been taking trees down for better part of two years now, at one point they had a massive tub grinder turning them into landfill waste. As has been said these guys work quick as most are under contacts so no need to waste any time.

 

[philoshop]

It is a shame. But business is business, and liability issues (read lawyers) run business today. It hurts to see that kind of waste, but it is what it is. The only alternative is government regulation, and we all know how that works out in the end.

 

[TeeMan]

I agree, time is money and there are too many liability issues there to let un-known people cut and haul on land under construction for a deadline to be met. It just boggles my mind that they couldn't mill it. I've seen this in a few areas recently. Late last year on a separate commercial tract of land they piled up all the cut trees and didn't burn pile them, but now it is so overgrown and no telling what critters are in the large piles...and they never did any development on that land. That was really strange. It seems this later development is blowing and going by pretty fast.

 

[zogger]

I agree, time is money and there are too many liability issues there to let un-known people cut and haul on land under construction for a deadline to be met. It just boggles my mind that they couldn't mill it. I've seen this in a few areas recently. Late last year on a separate commercial tract of land they piled up all the cut trees and didn't burn pile them, but now it is so overgrown and no telling what critters are in the large piles...and they never did any development on that land. That was really strange. It seems this later development is blowing and going by pretty fast.

Anything to load logs with there? If so, coupla cuts with a saw and load entire logs on your trailer or truck? They might go for that for a few bucks over making a lot of bucking cuts.

Ya, I hate seeing the waste, too, I cut down to one inch when I do a tree. Most of the time anyway.

 

[TeeMan]

They have excavators, but never cut anything, they pushed down via dozers, piled, and burned. It's no use worrying about it now; I've got 8 cords split and stacked so have plenty. I guess all of us firewood fanatics just hate seeing good wood go to waste. My friend and I finished up the red oak that was taken down in the neighborhood last night...even lit a fire outside to enjoy this unusual cold front that moved thru in July. Believe me, a low of 65 with no/low humidity in the middle of Summer in South Louisiana is a rarity!

 

[zogger]

They have excavators, but never cut anything, they pushed down via dozers, piled, and burned. It's no use worrying about it now; I've got 8 cords split and stacked so have plenty. I guess all of us firewood fanatics just hate seeing good wood go to waste. My friend and I finished up the red oak that was taken down in the neighborhood last night...even lit a fire outside to enjoy this unusual cold front that moved thru in July. Believe me, a low of 65 with no/low humidity in the middle of Summer in South Louisiana is a rarity!

Pretty nice here, too. Real nice and cool and just a hint of breeze this morning. Like summer should be!

 

[ppkgmsy]

I wonder if they'd be willing to look the other way if you came by with your saw and truck on a Saturday or Sunday when they aren't working.

 

[slowp]

I wonder if they'd be willing to look the other way if you came by with your saw and truck on a Saturday or Sunday when they aren't working.

Before or after they are in a burn pile? After presents some problems. Good burning piles are tightly piled, with small stuff on the bottom to get it going good. Woodcutters can interfere with the shape and compaction and mess up a good burn pile.

 

[woodchuck357]

Before or after they are in a burn pile? After presents some problems. Good burning piles are tightly piled, with small stuff on the bottom to get it going good. Woodcutters can interfere with the shape and compaction and mess up a good burn pile.

Crap! Cutting logs out of a pile would just make what is left burn better. The liability issue or just don't want any one else to benefit from what they consider to be waste. I have seen a person sued for removing a broken chair from just ahead of the trash truck. The person suing lost.

 

[GeeVee]

Before or after they are in a burn pile? After presents some problems. Good burning piles are tightly piled, with small stuff on the bottom to get it going good. Woodcutters can interfere with the shape and compaction and mess up a good burn pile.

Yeah, its a real science getting wood to burn.... Wouldn't want a "Good" pile becoming sub-optimal.....

 

[slowp]

And the last two replies show why burn piles get put off limits. Don't know about there, but getting piles to burn well without smoking out the world is a little bit of science.
Ideally we want the piles to burn hot and fast. Tight, compact and with a dry core for the fire to start in is what we want. Firewooders tend to pull the piles apart and ruin the piles. At that point, the machines used to pile are long gone and the pile won't burn as completely as wanted and it is too expensive to move equipment BACK to the area. Machine piling is just that. Machine piling and seldom machine chunking. A section is covered with plastic to make that dry core part. Then, when conditions are good, we have to check with our local fire dept. or DNR, the piles can be torched off. Let me see, we used seal a meal bags of napalm and drip torches. That dry spot is where we light the pile, it gets going (cooking) and the rest of the pile goes up. When one is near a road, leaf blowers can get a pile going. Green piles that are not seasoned can be burned but they take more fuel and put up more smoke.

It is also a contractual thing. The slash piling is part of the logging contract. If firewooders get in and wreck the piles before they have been accepted as complete, that logger may have to redo the piles. Let me see, there's also the liability thing if an errant woodcutter gets a wildfire going while stealing wood out of the pile.

But that's all in the woods. The suburbian and town cutting is probably a lot different.

 

[GeeVee]

Yeah, like I said, when you need that much instruction on how to make burn piles, you know- burn, you must be tarded and need protected from yourself.

Around here, which isn't the greatest place on earth to live (please move here and make it more like where you come from, we're all stupid) we don't let landclearing and logging operations burn WITHOUT equipment on site.

Apparently in SW Washington, they do everything so uber best, starting with INVENTING trees, then logging, that the rest of us should just give up trying, since we don't know nothing about anything.

Let me see- I'm so condescending, I think I'll point out your last sentence in the first paragraph makes no sense.

We get it Slowp, you're proud of yourself. Instead of breaking your arm trying to pat yourself on the back, try breaking your leg kicking yourself in the ass, right on down to another messageboard entirely.

Yall up there are IDIOTS if you burn tops and slash without equipment on site- frankly just dumbasses for someone crowing about how smart and better ya are.

 

[slowp]

GeeVee, read my post more slowwwly. Look for this sentence.

At that point, the machines used to pile are long gone and the pile won't burn as completely as wanted and it is too expensive to move equipment BACK to the area.

Note the word BACK. After logs are yarded and hauled from a unit, machinery--usually a shovel (loader) piles slash where it is required, and then is walked or hauled to the next logging unit. It isn't there when we burn piles. So if an errant firewooder gets in and ruins the pile, the equipment is NOT there to repile. Those piles that have been pulled apart are not going to burn as complete as the undisturbed piles.

Guess you gotta have it actually happen to you to understand.

There is a bit of skill required to burn things, whether it be a pile, an underburn or a broadcast burn, successfully without smoking out your people, the area, or having too much slop over. Unless you've done all of the above, it is very hard to understand. Thank you for the editing suggestion. I fixed it.

Git that column going!

 

[zogger]

GeeVee, read my post more slowwwly. Look for this sentence.

At that point, the machines used to pile are long gone and the pile won't burn as completely as wanted and it is too expensive to move equipment BACK to the area.

Note the word BACK. After logs are yarded and hauled from a unit, machinery--usually a shovel (loader) piles slash where it is required, and then is walked or hauled to the next logging unit. It isn't there when we burn piles. So if an errant firewooder gets in and ruins the pile, the equipment is NOT there to repile. Those piles that have been pulled apart are not going to burn as complete as the undisturbed piles.

Guess you gotta have it actually happen to you to understand.

There is a bit of skill required to burn things, whether it be a pile, an underburn or a broadcast burn, successfully without smoking out your people, the area, or having too much slop over. Unless you've done all of the above, it is very hard to understand. Thank you for the editing suggestion. I fixed it.

Git that column going!

And you are missing the point of the whole entire thread, the WASTE when perfectly good firewood is burnt up on purpose when some folks could use it and would haul it off. You are describing just being more efficient in wasting wood. Of course, par for the course with the government and big Inc corporations.

Don't worry, not moving there, never gonna drop penny one as a tourist either. Don't need the cooties.

 

[066blaster]

It seems like steps could be taken to separate some good wood before piled for burning. In wi where I live you don't see too much good wood go to waste. And good luck starting a big fire legally. You'd have a fire department coming to put it out. I have seen some big clearing operations and they brought in a tub grinder and made mulch

 

[GeeVee]

GeeVee, read my post more slowwwly. Look for this sentence.

At that point, the machines used to pile are long gone and the pile won't burn as completely as wanted and it is too expensive to move equipment BACK to the area.

Note the word BACK. After logs are yarded and hauled from a unit, machinery--usually a shovel (loader) piles slash where it is required, and then is walked or hauled to the next logging unit. It isn't there when we burn piles. So if an errant firewooder gets in and ruins the pile, the equipment is NOT there to repile. Those piles that have been pulled apart are not going to burn as complete as the undisturbed piles.

Guess you gotta have it actually happen to you to understand.

There is a bit of skill required to burn things, whether it be a pile, an underburn or a broadcast burn, successfully without smoking out your people, the area, or having too much slop over. Unless you've done all of the above, it is very hard to understand. Thank you for the editing suggestion. I fixed it.

Git that column going!

Slowp- You are pretty dense. Re-read my post verrrry Slowwwwpy, look for this sentence.

Yall up there are IDIOTS if you burn tops and slash without equipment on site- frankly just dumbasses for someone crowing about how smart and better ya are.

IDIOTS. Period. We must be total dumbasses down here, since we require equipment for burns. We ought to send some of our US Forestry people up your way, so you can show them how much safer it is to burn without equipment on site. I promise, they'll only come to learn from the master herself, they must already know they aren't good enough to actually move there.

Ruination, I can't believe it. How will I turn all this back into carbon?

Stop. Do NOT reply again.

I have held a state of Florida Professional Firefighters license for, let me see, next year will be, THIRTY years. I merely have to return an over due library book to get my Fire Science Degree. as if I needed another one, and if you look at Google Earth right now, you can see a big scar of land clearing just west of the St Johns River where we are building a new belt way around Orlando, (Wekiva Parkway) I had a little something to do with Specifying how the clearing and grubbing was to be performed, among other things as a Project Manager. I can't take all the credit though, over the fifteen years in Planning, PD&E, EMO, there were many idiots with responsibilities we knew nothing about. I just helped write the design build advertisement for acquisition. I'd guess you could also see (or not, if they got that column going, what a joke) in southern Volusia County on the I-95 corridor, some clearing and grubbing we are doing for widening of the interstate. Somehow FHWA figured we are too dumb to burn piles without equipment on site, cut and staged up retention ponds, and at least 5000 GPMs worth of pumps no more than 2600' feet away when actively burning, since there is only an operating interstate with 300,000 vpd merely 1000' feet away. Dang, I can't forget about I-4 between DeLand and Daytona Beach, also running about 300,00 vpd. Not just the landclearing to widen both sides of the road- but since we are doing full depth reconstruction (raising the road elevation on average three feet, I have to burn all the land clearing that was buried in the 1950's UNDER the old road. Google Earth it Poindexter.

Yes, GrumpAss, I have all of that experience you mention, Clearing, Logging (a byproduct of developing land) Habitat Restoration for Scrub Jays with prescribed burns, and fighting wildfires. You, apparently, needed remedial training every year. Most Tards do. But, don't worry, I hugged EVERY one, before I cut it down, or pushed it over with a rootrake.

I own quite a bit of my own land, mostly Oak Hammock, and equipment, and I enjoy a good brush burn, but I don't find it particularly difficult.

Prolly ought to get off your high horse and get a clue- you aint all that and the prize in the Cracker Jacks, more like the joke on the inside of Bazooka Joe Bubble Gum.

No, really, please carry your condescending self over to the Frustrated Grandmas Quilting Forum, over there you have a chance at being voted the biggest know it all, if you vote for yourself.

ps. Yes there is skill in burning things. Let me see, I just burned you, and did a fine job of it too.

 

[slowp]

Oh boy. So why didn't you do any explaining on why firewood cutters are not allowed in slash piles all the time?

You must smoke your crew out if you do broadcast burns without getting a good smoke column rising. Must be a regional difference? We aren't all Floridians. No, you didn't burn me. You just showed you are ignorant of regional differences.

We do burn without any equipment. You know why? We have winter. We have rain and snow. That kinda makes it hard for piles to set off a wildfire, don't you agree?
Piles are burned in the late fall or winter. That's why they have plastic on them keeping the core dry.

Condescending? You just wrote the book on that.

Pumps? Not on burning piles. See the above.

Broadcast burns? Well, those had a hose line around them, laid on a fireline to keep the hose from burning, and some sort of water source. We have topography here so we would start at the top and light working down and TRYING TO GET IT HOT ENOUGH FOR A NICE SMOKE COLUMN TO GO UP instead of smoking out the crew. One memorable day in late May, there were several mushroom clouds to be seen--smoke columns because it was a good day to burn for Weyco and for us. Our fuels guy didn't have all your courses under his belt, but he got things done and taught us a lot about how to do it. These burns were done in the spring, just after the snow had melted and when the slash would burn. Spring burns are a hair cooler than the fall burns and that 's easier on the soils--here.

I have offended a fire god. Master of the stick walk. One who is easily offended too. A sensitive boy. Oh well. It aint Florida up here, thank goodness. Flat is boring.
Don't move here.

The white stuff is snow. It doesn't burn well. That's the view from just a hair east of here on a thinning unit.