Business Partner suspicious? Or am I paranoid?

[SirSawsAlot]

Recently i formed a business with my friend. He is the climber, i am the ground guy. I own all the trucks. My partner doesnt own a car.

Everything's been smooth up untill i cut my leg pretty deep with a saw and was out for two weeks. I was unable to drive or work. My partner took over the estimating as i let him borrow my truck. He also did a few small bush trims he could do himself. We previously contracted that during an injury we still each get our normal pay unless the injured person is out for more than 5 weeks.

During my time at home this happens..

On one 200 dollar job he accidentally lost 100 dollars on the way home.

We had a huge increase in quotes over the time i was injured, which explained for the many miles that was driven on my truck. But we only sold three jobs in the 2 weeks. He also forgot to write in the book all of these incoming calls and estimates he did because he was too busy.

What do u guys think and what would you do?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Well, first start wearing your ppe, that would have solved a lot of problems.
Lost a Hundo? Well, he lost his half of the job. Bet he doesn't do that again, if he did. Not accepting cash in a partnership also helps solve that problem. As far as the rest, it just doesn't sound like much of a business. Unfortunately, you need him more than he needs you, sounds like.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Does the cut prevent you from using a phone or riding shotgun?

 

[SirSawsAlot]

Well, first start wearing your ppe, that would have solved a lot of problems.
Lost a Hundo? Well, he lost his half of the job. Bet he doesn't do that again, if he did. Not accepting cash in a partnership also helps solve that problem. As far as the rest, it just doesn't sound like much of a business. Unfortunately, you need him more than he needs you, sounds like.

Thanks for the response, i tried to make it short and sweet. We are an established business in S.E michigan. I own all the trucks, chippers, trailers, loaders, saws, ropes....i own it all... i bought it all from my half of the money we both made so i wouldnt have to buy him out in the case of a major fallout. I think i will delegate myself to the organization of paperwork and phones.

Im not sure if theres a full truth to that, yes he is the climber, but he also makes 50% of each job, he couldn't get that pay anywhere else. We do also split business expenses. But after expenses the profit it split 50 50

 

[SirSawsAlot]

Does the cut prevent you from using a phone or riding shotgun?

He delegated himself to the phone, yes it sort of did his court order allows him to drive only if no passengers are in the vehicle....

 

[SirSawsAlot]

And yes i normally wear ppe...helmet...gloves...i was being lazy about walking the 20 ft to the truck to grab chaps....


Also i think i should mention that i am posting this for honest feedback negative or positive. So dont hold your comments back, were all tree guys we can handle a little heat

 

[ATH]

"the only ship that won't float is a partnership"

If you can't trust him you are in for choppy waters ahead.

Specific to the things you brought up:

On one 200 dollar job he accidentally lost 100 dollars on the way home.
Sucks to be him. Sounds like his $100 he lost to me. At best you could argue that you each lost $50 since everything is split 50/50.

We had a huge increase in quotes over the time i was injured, which explained for the many miles that was driven on my truck. But we only sold three jobs in the 2 weeks.
Where did the calls come from? How many calls is a "huge increase"? If it included more than about 6-7 and he only sold 3, then, yes...he certainly needs you (assuming you are selling more than 50%).

He also forgot to write in the book all of these incoming calls and estimates he did because he was too busy.
You guys need to come up with a better system that you both buy into.

 

[Pelorus]

Business partnerships don't work in tree work. One guy winds up doing more than his fair share of the work, irritation increases, fallout results.

edit: And fallout is gonna be an inevitable outcome here. You are trying to do bodywork on a truck with no brakes.

 

[SirSawsAlot]

"the only ship that won't float is a partnership"

If you can't trust him you are in for choppy waters ahead.

Specific to the things you brought up:

On one 200 dollar job he accidentally lost 100 dollars on the way home.
Sucks to be him. Sounds like his $100 he lost to me. At best you could argue that you each lost $50 since everything is split 50/50.

We had a huge increase in quotes over the time i was injured, which explained for the many miles that was driven on my truck. But we only sold three jobs in the 2 weeks.
Where did the calls come from? How many calls is a "huge increase"? If it included more than about 6-7 and he only sold 3, then, yes...he certainly needs you (assuming you are selling more than 50%).

He also forgot to write in the book all of these incoming calls and estimates he did because he was too busy.
You guys need to come up with a better system that you both buy into.

Thanks ATH for the reply.. ive been known to be too much of a nice guy, so i let the 100 slide...

We typically get 5-6 calls a week, we typically sell 4-5 jobs a week. This big increase in estimates was his response when i called him out for the excessive miles driven on the truck.

Yes a new system is a must... maybe one phone number to the business instead of both of ours is a start

 

[SirSawsAlot]

I made this post mostly to vent anonymously to the tree community, but i am happy with your responses i think you guys have brouht up some great advice so far.

 

[ATH]

....

Yes a new system is a must... maybe one phone number to the business instead of both of ours is a start

No question...and that is not a trust thing, just a clarity thing that I think makes the most sense for any business. When I see 2 #'s, I never know: which one do I pick, do I try one...if no one answers do I leave a voice mail or just hang up and try the other. If I leave a VM on the first number do I still call the second number???

Maybe get a 3rd number that you normally forward to your phone...but when you are not available you have it forwarded to him?

You have actual partnership documents filed with the State? I think you'd be better off with one of you owning the business and the other being an employee. You can still split all profits 50/50 if you structure it well.

 

[SirSawsAlot]

No question...and that is not a trust thing, just a clarity thing that I think makes the most sense for any business. When I see 2 #'s, I never know: which one do I pick, do I try one...if no one answers do I leave a voice mail or just hang up and try the other. If I leave a VM on the first number do I still call the second number???

Maybe get a 3rd number that you normally forward to your phone...but when you are not available you have it forwarded to him?

You have actual partnership documents filed with the State? I think you'd be better off with one of you owning the business and the other being an employee. You can still split all profits 50/50 if you structure it well.

Yes we filed an L.L.C. in michigan and wrote that we are both 50 50 owners. That's a good idea. Even a trac phone since you typically don't have crazy long conversations with customers.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Each quote needs to have a written form to go with it. That would prevent the problem of not trusting whether your partner actually went to the sales call.

The quote can turn into a work contract. It should be signed by you when you give it to the customer and no work should start until the customer signs it (or gives some other form of written go ahead - email).

 

[Paragon Builder]

I say trust your gut. I didn't because I wanted to believe that he was honest. And I think he was at first. But life happens and people justify things. It starts small. Sounds like he is lying to you, and you are giving him benefit of the doubt.
I will never partner again. I knew 5 years ago I needed out but didn't know how to make the break. I tried to keep it it amicable, and finally broke away a year ago. He screwed me out of my take of our last job, a 6 week renovation, on top of what he had been skimming for years. But I'm better off. Still climbing out of the hole though.
If he is your friend and you want it to stay that way, I would restructure things somehow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SirSawsAlot]

Each quote needs to have a written form to go with it. That would prevent the problem of not trusting whether your partner actually went to the sales call.

The quote can turn into a work contract. It should be signed by you when you give it to the customer and no work should start until the customer signs it (or gives some other form of written go ahead - email).

Yes we have a quote book where we have written forms thay become signed contracts for each job. We also have a phone book where we write down all incoming calls to the business. He didnt fill out these books

 

[SirSawsAlot]

I say trust your gut. I didn't because I wanted to believe that he was honest. And I think he was at first. But life happens and people justify things. It starts small. Sounds like he is lying to you, and you are giving him benefit of the doubt.
I will never partner again. I knew 5 years ago I needed out but didn't know how to make the break. I tried to keep it it amicable, and finally broke away a year ago. He screwed me out of my take of our last job, a 6 week renovation, on top of what he had been skimming for years. But I'm better off. Still climbing out of the hole though.
If he is your friend and you want it to stay that way, I would restructure things somehow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, i have done alot of research and heard opinions through here and other forums, sounds like a partnership with a friend almost never works. Now the question could moved on as to how do i restructure, and what works for most tree guys.

 

[Paragon Builder]

I'm not a tree guy. But there can only be one chief. You can pay a guy well. But even if a partnership works in the beginning, life happens and people change. Someone gets taken advantage of. You own all the equipment. He can't do jobs without you. You need a climber. You could hire another one probably for less than you pay him. This means you've got decent cards. But he will get pissed no doubt if you try to pull the reins in cuz you are his meal ticket. Believe me.
No matter what, it sucks. But don't wait 5-10 years to get trampled on like I did.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[woodenboater]

Not in the tree biz but I would suggest you dissolve or otherwise find a way out of the partnership. I don't see anything but headaches down the road and if trust is an issue, well that pretty well seals it. Would he be ok being an employee that draws a weekly cheque ? It would mean more work for you but could also alleviate some of the issues nagging you.

Some people make better employees than business partners. good luck down the road

 

[SirSawsAlot]

Yes i totally agree. All of these horror stories of a partnership make me wish that i looked into it more before making a decision on my excitement. Now the work begins and my temper and ability to negotiate will be tested.

 

[Paragon Builder]

Yes i totally agree. All of these horror stories of a partnership make me wish that i looked into it more before making a decision on my excitement. Now the work begins and my temper and ability to negotiate will be tested.

I wish you the best.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk