Cable logging test run in Wisconsin

[forestryworks]

This is from September, so it might have already made the rounds here.

Wisconsin logging takes to the air - The Country Today: Home

 

[slowp]

That solves the problem of lift trees, which I have no idea what kind you'd use in a hardwood stand. No more, (said in a yooper voice) "We'll log til we tip over, den we'll pull out." That was said and the forwarder did tip over, and they did move out.

 

[wowzers]

Looks like their downhilling. Might be the picture but that strip looks pretty juicy.

ETA: Wouldn't it be cheaper to ditch the second excavator and just use tail holds.

 

[bitzer]

Thanks Jameson for putting that up! It makes it look like we might know what we are doing up here. With that excavator set-up you could move the entire system (horizontally) fairly easily I would think. The thing is though, justifiing the set-up like the guy said. We don't have that long of hills to make it worthwhile. We are also heavy on selective cutting in this state. Sometimes my harvest trees are 50 ft apart. Its an interesting thought, but I think it would be tough to keep that thing in wood every day. Also forwarders do not cost $450-500k. Even the really nice ones. I've got a hill I'm working late this week that will be fun with the forwarder. I need the ground to freeze up NOW.

 

[Slamm]

I would love somethingl like that on these flat bottoms that flood and are always wet, but that cost would be too much, its easier to just wait for them to freeze or dry out, while I work somewhere else, but thats a problem if there isn't a "somewhere else".

Sam

 

[Steve NW WI]

Thanks Jameson for putting that up! It makes it look like we might know what we are doing up here. With that excavator set-up you could move the entire system (horizontally) fairly easily I would think. The thing is though, justifiing the set-up like the guy said. We don't have that long of hills to make it worthwhile. We are also heavy on selective cutting in this state. Sometimes my harvest trees are 50 ft apart. Its an interesting thought, but I think it would be tough to keep that thing in wood every day. Also forwarders do not cost $450-500k. Even the really nice ones. I've got a hill I'm working late this week that will be fun with the forwarder. I need the ground to freeze up NOW.

This week should take care of the freezing problem for ya. Won't see 0 on my thermometer up here on the hill tonight, but could happen down the hill by the creek.

Lots of places south of here that system could work well, from about Ridgeland east of me all the way down to the Iowa border south of LaCrosse have some slopes that will equal the west coast in steep, just not in long. Some farmers down that way use the same hillside combines they use out in the Palouse.

 

[slowp]

I got asked about yarding an area. To my PNW biased eyes, I told them that the pitches were so short, they'd spend more time rigging up than actual yarding. Plus the afforementioned lack of knowledge about the strength of hardwoods to use for tailholds. or lift.

One logger said he had always wanted to go out west and see those machines work. He brought out a Logger's World to ask me questions about yarders. I was learning forwarders there. It was quite an education for me. There are lots of Red Pine planted in rows!

 

[Under_Pressure]

That's right down the road from me- interesting. Would make some work for hand fallers rather than all the damn processors around here too. Obviously I can't see every logger in the state with something like that, but there is probably room for some contractors specializing in hillside and wetland work.

 

[Slamm]

This week should take care of the freezing problem for ya. Won't see 0 on my thermometer up here on the hill tonight, but could happen down the hill by the creek.

Lots of places south of here that system could work well, from about Ridgeland east of me all the way down to the Iowa border south of LaCrosse have some slopes that will equal the west coast in steep, just not in long. Some farmers down that way use the same hillside combines they use out in the Palouse.

I have worked that area and it is very steep ...... big hills or small mountains, LOL.

I would have some interested in a cheaper setup for flat wetland/muddy runs, where I could set up a long straight main train with the cable and then use the skidder to bring the logs to that high line, then the "high line" would be the skidder for the main trail, which is where the wheel skidders break down the dirt/mudd/trail due to repeated trips, obviously the cable wouldn't do this, but like this job I'm on right now, it would be handy if the main line could be 1/2 mile long ...... is that possible? How much would just the cable cost and what size would it have to be?

Interesting for sure.

Sam

 

[slowp]

Yes, a half mile is possible, depending on topography, weight of cable, yarder capabilities, etc. Humptulips is the expert on this.

 

[bitzer]

This week should take care of the freezing problem for ya. Won't see 0 on my thermometer up here on the hill tonight, but could happen down the hill by the creek.

Lots of places south of here that system could work well, from about Ridgeland east of me all the way down to the Iowa border south of LaCrosse have some slopes that will equal the west coast in steep, just not in long. Some farmers down that way use the same hillside combines they use out in the Palouse.

I sure hope so. Its been down in the teens at night and I'm still on the morning skid/afternoon cut routine. I can't wait to switch that back around. They are talking about a warm up this weekend too. You're right about that western side of the state. It might work over there.


Patty, I obviously have no experience with tail-holds, but I don't see why hardwoods couldn't work. Where the hell is Hammer at a time like this? Those boys are yarding hardwood. Did those yoopers roll their forwarder loading or driving?

 

[slowp]

They rolled it during hauling. The slope was getting around 40%, which is considered steep there. Another logger was brought in to finish it up. He felled by hand, and had an old rubber tired skidder and winch.

There is a hooktender in these parts, who was telling me about using alder for tail trees in Alaska. I think that would be crazy to do, and scary.

 

[bitzer]

They rolled it during hauling. The slope was getting around 40%, which is considered steep there. Another logger was brought in to finish it up. He felled by hand, and had an old rubber tired skidder and winch.

There is a hooktender in these parts, who was telling me about using alder for tail trees in Alaska. I think that would be crazy to do, and scary.

Yeah driving sidehill is not a real special feeling. I try to drive straight up and down, but I'm sure my hills look like bunny slopes to you PNWers. My second machine will be a cable skidder. Alder is pretty brittle wood though isn't? I could see tailing to an elm or an oak. Then again I really know nothing of the forces invloved.

 

[hammerlogging]

I am very happy to see a sample of cable logging outside of its norm, and sometimes this might be the impetus to get more going in new regions. this does, unfortunately, reek of a well intentioned desk based forester equipment geek type of thing, not a logger.

The system is, neat. the advantage of the machine on the back end is the help with defelction- elevated tail spar, and mobility, whcih could have been capture with a dozer. AND, the mobility only work in the case of a clearcut, which has been pointed outis not the norm there or in so many other places. The carriage is motorized to drive itself on the skyline, there is no mainline, just a skyline. these carriages eat up skylines. And, the turn size is limited by this lack of "traction" for lack of a clearer descriptor, not to mention the carriage weight taking away from turn weight of the logs. 2 40 ton excavators is no joke to lowboy from job to job, just so that you don't have to have guylines.

Point is, go cable logging! But, you'd be a lot better off with an older 40' tower 3 drum (or more) yarder mounted on a truck or something esle mobile. Bigger turn size, easier to move, more productive, and lower $/ton.

I am happy to see the grant money and all, and I think it was all well intended, but I am sure the logging rate is way too high. if you want to advance the industry, then you have to beat the system with skill, finesse, and performance, not grant money. So if this leads some who thought that cable was a good possibility to thinking that its unreasonable, thats too bad.

tail holds- no problem in hardwood. especially if done properly.

 

[slowp]

I'm kinda slow, so patience please.

Do you mean the carriage runs on it's own? No pulling it up with a mainline?

 

[Humptulips]

Yes, a half mile is possible, depending on topography, weight of cable, yarder capabilities, etc. Humptulips is the expert on this.

hammerlogging pretty well covered it all. Funny he mentioned the kind of yarder you need for that. There was one just like that cut up for scrap about a 1/4 mile down the road here last week
Everyone is shovel logging now a days on pretty steep ground to cut labor costs. That picture don't look that steep.

 

[hammerlogging]

yeah. maybe you could look up self propelled carriage.

I would like to see more of what folks are doing with shovels.

 

[flushcut]

I think it is a fantastic idea, but I have a few reservations about it. Hills here are short and not that steep I am in the south by Lake Geneva for a few weeks and there is the Kettle Morane near by were a cable warding system would come in handy. When they started talking about wetlands I am thinking get real. You are talking about square miles of area unless they are talking about seasonal ponds, then just cut it in the winter. Oh well time will tell but my gut tells me that it is not going to take. I mean it took what 150 years for it to show up here, I wonder why.

 

[flushcut]

opcorn:

 

[slowp]

.

I believe you are supposed to report your location to the FAA in such circumstances. We had to do so when the big yarders were hanging across drainages.